Transport Committee on March 21st, 2018

[The Chair (Hon. Judy A. Sgro (Humber River—Black Creek, Lib.)), Liberal, Judy Sgro]

I'm calling to order the meeting of the Standing Committee on Transport, Infrastructure and Communities.

Good afternoon, everyone. We gather today to study the subject matter of supplementary estimates (C), 2017-18: vote 1c under Department of Transport and vote 1c under the Federal Bridge Corporation Limited. We will also study the subject matter of interim estimates, 2018-19: vote 1 under Canadian Air Transport Security Authority; vote 1 under Canadian Transportation Agency; votes 1, 5, 10, 15, and 20 under Department of Transport; vote 1 under Marine Atlantic Incorporated; and vote 1 under The Federal Bridge Corporation Limited.

We are delighted to welcome back the Honourable Marc Garneau, the Minister of Transport, as well as his officials: Mr. Michael Keenan, deputy minister; Mr. André Lapointe, assistant deputy minister for corporate services and chief financial officer; and Mr. Pierre-Marc Mongeau, assistant deputy minister, programs.

From the Canadian Air Transport Security Authority, we have Mr. Neil Parry, vice-president, service delivery, and Ms. Nancy Fitchett, acting vice-president for corporate affairs and chief financial officer.

From the Canadian Transportation Agency, we have Mr. Scott Streiner, chair and chief executive officer, and Ms. Carole Girard, executive director, internal services.

From Marine Atlantic Incorporated, we have Mr. Paul Griffin, president and chief executive officer.

From the Federal Bridge Corporation Limited, we have Ms. Natalie Kinloch, chief financial and operating officer.

Finally, on behalf of VIA Rail, we have Mr. Jacques Fauteux, director, government and community relations; Ms. Patricia Jasmin, chief financial officer; and Mr. Pierre Le Fèvre, senior advisor to the president and chief executive officer, strategic planning.

We welcome everyone. We certainly have a full house here today. Welcome to the committee.

Mr. Garneau, I will turn it over to you.

[Marc Garneau, Liberal, Minister of Transport]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Since you have made all the introductions, I can skip over the first part of my statement.

Innovation and modernization present important challenges for the transportation sector. The funds we are seeking would help support modernization that is important to the success of our economy, and to the safety and security of Canadians. Canada must have the infrastructure and services in place to move goods and people to where they need to go, for years to come.

As was outlined in Transportation 2030, my long-term strategy for transportation in Canada, our legislation and regulations must aligned with global standards, and with rapid and complex changes taking place in the transportation sector.

Changes in the transportation sector must be implemented safely—without endangering Canadians or harming our environment—while supporting and strengthening our economy. We must be in step with the sector's fast-moving evolution, or—even better—a step or two ahead.

That means fostering research and innovation, in partnership with stakeholders, other governments, indigenous peoples, academia and others. Adapting to change is not easy, but everyone at Transport Canada, and the crown corporations in my portfolio, embraces the challenges before us.

We have taken already some important steps toward the future. This includes Bill C-49, the transportation modernization act, which is the first major step on the Transportation 2030 path.

The transportation modernization act would amend the Canada Transportation Act and other legislation governing the air, rail, and marine sectors, helping to modernize Canada's transportation system. Through the oceans protection plan, the largest-ever investment to protect Canada's coasts and waterways, we are building a world-leading marine safety system while preserving ecosystems, forging stronger partnerships with indigenous peoples, and engaging coastal communities, industry, and other stakeholders—all with a view to learning more about our oceans.

The proposed Canadian navigable waters act includes robust powers to enforce safeguards and protect the public's right to navigation. The Canadian navigable waters act would provide extra oversight where it's needed most, on navigable waters of greatest importance to Canadians and to indigenous peoples. It would provide more transparency for projects such as dams, mines, and bridges. We welcome the challenges before us and we look forward to the exciting changes the future promises.

In the supplementary estimates before you today, Transport Canada is requesting $755,900 in new funding and $122,400 in statutory forecasts for employee benefits plan costs.

However, most of that is offset by transfers to other government departments, for a small net increase of $175,700. The majority of that offset is a transfer to the Federal Bridge Corporation Limited, which is seeking an increase of $698,500 through these supplementary estimates, to conduct a feasibility and design study for the Cornwall port of entry in Cornwall, Ontario.

In the interim estimates before you today, Transport Canada is seeking $322.8 million in interim supply, to continue providing a safe and secure, efficient and environmentally responsible transportation system.

The Canadian Air Transport Security Authority is seeking $244.2 million to continue protecting the public through effective and efficient screening of air travellers and their baggage.

VIA Rail is seeking $134.5 million to continue providing safe, reliable and efficient passenger rail service.

Marine Atlantic is seeking $37.8 million to continue providing safe, environmentally responsible, and reliable ferry services.

The Federal Bridge Corporation Limited is seeking $900,000 to upgrade the roadway connecting the north and south channel Seaway International Bridges at Cornwall.

The Canadian Transportation Agency is seeking $9.4 million to continue its work as an economic regulator that administers relevant transportation legislation.

Madam Chair, Transport Canada, the crown corporations in my portfolio, and I are committed to sound fiscal management and stewardship of government resources on behalf of Canadian taxpayers. The financial resources sought through these supplementary and interim estimates would help ensure our transportation system continues to serve Canadian needs, as I mentioned earlier, to move goods and people to where they need to go safely and securely for years to come.

I'd be very happy now to answer any questions.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Thank you very much, Minister Garneau.

We will move on to Ms. Block for five minutes.

[Kelly Block, Conservative, Carlton Trail—Eagle Creek, SK]

Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

I would like to thank the minister for joining us today, as well as all of the departmental officials. I know you do very good work on behalf of Canadians and I appreciate your joining us today. My question, obviously, will be for the minister.

For weeks, Minister Garneau, farmers and the Province of Saskatchewan have all been asking you to support an order in council to force the railways to clear the rail backlog that has plagued Canada's rail system this winter, yet you have refused to do so.

To be clear, this is not the first time you have refused to act in the interests of our farmers and shippers. When you introduced Bill C-49, Conservative members requested that the bill be split so that the rail measures in the bill could be studied in an expeditious manner. When you refused, we then called upon you to extend Bill C-30 to ensure that there would be no legislative gap, and again you refused. Finally, when the opposition members proposed reasonable technical amendments to Bill C-49 to address the concerns raised by numerous witnesses, again the Liberal members did not support them.

My question to you, sir, is this: how much more funding would the Department of Transport have needed to request in the supplementary estimates (C) in order to draft, execute, and implement an order in council as requested by numerous farm organizations and provincial governments?

[Marc Garneau, Liberal, Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Westmount, QC]

I'll start by thanking this committee for looking at Bill C-49 so expeditiously last fall. That was very much appreciated. Now I am hoping that this bill will get through the Senate in the most expeditious manner possible.

I would also remind my colleague that despite everything she has said about Bill C-49, she and her party actually voted against Bill C-49 when it came for third reading, which is still a surprise to me.

With respect to the movement of grain, I have been in touch with the railways. I did so at the beginning of the month. This was just after a conversation I had with the Minister of Agriculture and the Minister of Transportation from Saskatchewan, the two of them together. I'm very much aware of the situation, which I follow on a weekly basis, and now on a daily basis.

I told both CN and CP that the movement of grain was unacceptably slow in this very busy season. Notwithstanding a very difficult February because of weather, the movement of grain was not at an acceptable level. In fact, they have come back with a plan. I told them that I wanted to see a plan by March 15, which they both provided. They have significantly increased the resources, both in terms of equipment—I'm talking about hopper cars and more locomotives—and more personnel, as well as prioritizing the movement of grain.

I am now seeing an accelerated movement of grain, which, by the way is about 25% above the levels that existed in 2013-14 when we had that very bad season under the previous government. It is moving very efficiently at this point. I will make sure that it continues to move efficiently, because there is a very large backlog and I want to get western farmers' grain to market as quickly as possible.

[Kelly Block, Conservative, Carlton Trail—Eagle Creek, SK]

Well, Minister, the fact of the matter is that all those reasonable technical amendments that we proposed were not passed by this committee, which is why we could not support the passage of that bill in the House of Commons. My hope is that members of the Senate will take a very good, objective look at the amendments that I know will come forward again, because these were amendments that were brought forward by stakeholders and witnesses. I'm trusting that the Senate may be able to do what the Liberal members weren't.

On that, I would re-ask my question of you. What level of funding would the Department of Transport have needed to request in the supplementary estimates (C) in order to draft, execute, and implement an order in council as requested by farm organizations and provincial governments?

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Minister Garneau, please keep your response short.

[Marc Garneau, Liberal, Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Westmount, QC]

It's a hypothetical question. We haven't looked at the issue of an interim order in council.

I'm hoping that the Senate will pass the bill quickly. I don't know what their amendments will be. I'm not going to prejudge what they will be. We will look at them when we receive them.

However, I would remind everyone that when it came through your committee, I think six of the nine amendments that were proposed were Conservative amendments. We were certainly very open to accepting Conservative amendments when it passed through this committee.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Thank you very much.

Mr. Fraser, you're on for five minutes.

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Central Nova, NS]

Excellent. Thank you very much, Minister and officials, for being with us today. Hopefully I'll get in two questions in the limited time we have. I'll get right to them.

The national trade corridors fund is an important economic strategic fund to erase bottlenecks. In the Atlantic region, there's a specific project at the Halifax Stanfield International Airport, which is an economic enabler of strategic importance to the entire region. Right now, our seafood industry has the potential for enormous growth, particularly in light of some opportunities we've been working on from an international trade perspective, with Europe, of course, through CETA, and some efforts being made at the provincial level with the Chinese government as well.

One of the bottlenecks we have right now is that the facility cannot handle the cargo. We are losing business to American airports to get our cargo to market, which again helps boost the price. Under the national trade corridors fund, it's my understanding that the Halifax project to expand a logistics facility to get more product to market has been made. I don't want you to prejudge the outcome of an independent process, but I wonder if you can comment on the eligibility of projects of this kind and the importance of getting our products to market to help not just big traders and our biggest financial centres, but people on the ground in small communities throughout Atlantic Canada.

[Marc Garneau, Liberal, Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Westmount, QC]

Thank you very much for your question.

As you point out, the national trade corridors fund—which, by the way, is in the final stages of making decisions on which programs will be funded in this first round—is intended to ensure that we have greater efficiency in the movement of goods and people through our trade and passenger corridors. We're looking at it from that point of view.

We're looking at well over 100 projects, I will say, and we have to make the decision about which ones will go ahead in the first round. I'm certainly aware of the one in Halifax, because I was in Seoul, South Korea, last November, and in fact at the airport there, where they had water pens that were filled with Nova Scotia lobster. They were arriving by cargo plane from Halifax. In Seoul, South Korea, there's a great demand for them, and some of them are being flown on to China. I understand this particular corridor for moving some of Nova Scotia's finest products.

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Central Nova, NS]

Should you find yourself in Nova Scotia again this summer, I'll take you down to the wharf. Perhaps you can sample a bite yourself.

There's another issue I wanted to tackle. On Bill C-49, you're right: we did come back early and as a committee found quite a bit of common ground on a number of issues. One of the issues we tackled was the air passenger bill of rights. In my mind, we landed on a bill that is going to enhance the passenger experience without compromising the efficiency of the transportation sector.

One of the great frustrations I have, being new to politics, is that sometimes when we get outside of the parliamentary bubble, we're dealing in a post-fact world. I've seen some news stories floating around suggesting that the bill is actually going to double the amount of time that passengers have to wait on the tarmac. The understanding I had when our committee dealt with this was that some airlines have a voluntary program to ensure that passengers don't wait beyond 90 minutes, but that there are many ways for airlines to get out of that voluntary obligation, so to speak.

Can you commit to us that the intention and the effect of this legislation will not double the amount of time that passengers are going to be waiting on the tarmac, but ensure they have a remedy when they are there for an unacceptable period of time?

[Marc Garneau, Liberal, Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Westmount, QC]

Thank you for the question, and I can assure you that when the bill of rights finally does come out—it is not out at this point, but will come out later on this year—Canadians will, I think, be very satisfied that we've achieved the right balance in terms of protecting their rights.

Yes, there is misinformation out there, unfortunately. When you look at at the issue of tarmac delays, you see that there is actually no national standard that exists in this country at the moment. The only thing that does exist is that certain airlines publish in their tariffs some things about tarmac delays. For people who don't know what this tariff is, it's essentially the contract between you and the airline when you buy a ticket; it's all that fine print that most people don't ever read.

Let me read for you the one from Air Transat. It says: “If the delay exceeds 90 minutes while at the gate, or 4 hours in the event of a Tarmac delay...”, which of course was the situation last summer at the Ottawa airport—they never did get to a gate—

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Central Nova, NS]

That's right.

[Marc Garneau, Liberal, Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Westmount, QC]

They were on the tarmac. It continues and says that “the Carrier must allow the passengers to deplane....”

Let me read the Air Canada one. The Air Canada one says that it “will not permit an aircraft to remain on the tarmac at a Canadian or US airport for more than four (4) hours”.

These are the tariffs that are published by those two particular airlines. That's their decision to do it. If, for example, after we put out a three-hour tarmac delay, one of those airlines decides it still wants to keep 90 minutes at the gate, they're perfectly free to do it, but if it's out on the tarmac, our three hours will actually be better than the four hours most people are required to wait. Also, within that three hours, there will be a requirement to provide refreshments, information, air conditioning, and bathroom services—all of those things—during that period of time.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Thank you very much, Minister Garneau.

Madam Sansoucy is next.

[Brigitte Sansoucy, NDP, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I want to say hello to the minister and those joining him.

Could you use this appearance before our committee to confirm the promise you made to conclude a funding agreement with the Government of Quebec for a bypass at Lac-Mégantic before July 6, 2018?

[Marc Garneau, Liberal, Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Westmount, QC]

Yes, I can confirm that.

I announced in January that we would conclude that agreement by July 6, as you pointed out, which will mark the fifth anniversary of that tragic event. We will announce funding for a bypass in Lac-Mégantic, as we promised in January. Right now, we are in discussions with the Government of Quebec because the costs will be shared.

We are waiting for the mayor of Lac-Mégantic, Julie Morin, to conclude her talks with her two colleagues representing the towns of Nantes and Frontenac. They are engaged in discussions to complete the final route of that bypass, so that it would be acceptable for everyone. We expect that to be done over the next few weeks. We will make the announcement by July 6.

[Brigitte Sansoucy, NDP, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

Thank you.

You have said several times that safety was your priority. However, between 2015 and 2017, you cut the budget for rail safety inspector training by 17%. We are closely following—as are you, I'm sure—the Transportation Safety Board's reports. It is important to take them into account, as the latest statistics indicate that the accident rate in rail transportation increased by 21% between 2016 and 2017.

In this context, why was the budget for the training of rail safety inspectors reduced?

[Marc Garneau, Liberal, Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Westmount, QC]

I would perhaps challenge some of your statistics on the number of safety-related incidents. Knowing what type of incident we're talking about is also important. We can't put into the same category serious and much less serious incidents. When this kind of data is analyzed, some granularity is noted.

To answer your question, I want to clarify that we have decided to adopt a different approach to the responsibility we have to conduct inspections to ensure that transportation systems are safe. The approach is risk-based. We used to conduct certain inspections regularly in the past—every three months, six months or annually for many years—but nothing ever changed because the risk was not high in that area. We decided to focus our resources in areas with higher risk levels.

That said, we conduct about 120,000 inspections a year across Canada's transportation systems. I personally believe that we are performing our task effectively and that our inspectors are highly qualified.

[Brigitte Sansoucy, NDP, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

In that regard, we placed a question on the Order Paper. In response, we were told that the regulations do not currently require a fatigue risk management system in the railway industry.

As far I understand, this means that Transport Canada does not perform effective oversight of the railway industry's efforts to manage train conductors' fatigue.

Why is that shortcoming not being addressed?

[Marc Garneau, Liberal, Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Westmount, QC]

I agree with you. We have decided to examine issues such as the work day and fatigue in the railway system. We have nearly completed that assessment for air transportation, and we have decided to do the same for railway transportation. I don't know whether the assessment is already underway or it will be very soon, but we have definitely decided to do it.

[Brigitte Sansoucy, NDP, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

Thank you.

A Global News report revealed that, when proficiency checks of pilots are performed by the companies themselves, half as many failures were reported as when the checks were performed by a Transport Canada inspector. However, the majority of checks, or 15,000 per year, are performed by industry pilots. Only 300 checks are performed by Transport Canada inspectors.

Given that data, with a reduced aviation safety program, why should we trust checks performed by the industry, whose interests are at stake, instead of those performed by your own department's inspectors?

[Marc Garneau, Liberal, Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Westmount, QC]

I am satisfied with the checks performed by inspector pilots who fulfill those contracts. I would add that, some years ago, the International Civil Aviation Organization, ICAO, determined that Canada ranked fourth globally in terms of aviation safety. I think that our track record is good, even though improvements are always possible.

Be that as it may, I think the current system, to which Transport Canada and contract inspectors are contributing, is working well.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Thank you very much. I'm sorry, but you're over time.

We're on to Mr. Hardie.