Transport Committee on Jan. 26th, 2021

[Chris Bittle, Liberal, St. Catharines, ON]

I just want to clarify one point. The government doesn't schedule committee business. It's the committee that schedules committee business. We happen to be in the minority on this committee, so that's a bizarre comment.

I'm sorry for trying to save some time in addressing both issues.

Again, with respect to the one issue, we do not have a problem. I guess this is an issue of clarification. Are we reopening the previous study? Is this a separate study? Just to clarify that point....

[Stephanie Kusie, Conservative, Calgary Midnapore, AB]

This is one meeting that I'm proposing for Transport Canada to come back. It's not a separate study.

Mr. Bittle, every time you raise an objection to the motion when I've called the question, you are wasting the witnesses' time, so let's move forward, please.

[The Chair, Liberal, Vance Badawey]

With no further questions, I will call the question on Ms. Kusie's motion.

Mr. Clerk, I guess virtually you have to do this, so the floor is yours.

[The Clerk]

The question is on the motion with regard to the 737 MAX aircraft.

(Motion agreed to: yeas 11; nays 0)

[The Chair, Liberal, Vance Badawey]

Thank you, members.

Are there any questions on the second motion that was put on the floor?

Mr. Clerk, did you want to read that motion out, please, for clarity for the members?

[The Clerk]

It states:

That the Committee invite the Transport Minister to appear for two hours, with the first hour focussed on the Supplemental Mandate Letter and the second hour on the pre-entry testing requirements, and that this meeting occur as soon as possible but no later than 25 February 2021.

[The Chair, Liberal, Vance Badawey]

Are there any questions or comments?

Mr. Bittle.

[Chris Bittle, Liberal, St. Catharines, ON]

Again, we're requesting a, hopefully, friendly amendment that the minister come and that we leave it a little bit open in terms of scheduling with the clerk to find a time for the minister to come. I'm hoping the Conservatives agree to that point. It's not a matter of months; it may be a matter of an extra week.

[The Chair, Liberal, Vance Badawey]

Mrs. Kusie, do you want to comment on that?

[Stephanie Kusie, Conservative, Calgary Midnapore, AB]

Yes. For the sake of congeniality and for the sake of our witnesses, I will go along with that—that it be for two hours but that a more flexible time frame be provided. Mr. Bittle can be certain, as can the rest of the committee, that I will be coming back with another motion should it be beyond the reasonable amount of time that Mr. Bittle is putting forward. I will be friendly to that amendment.

I'm not sure how the clerk would suggest we word it. In terms of the reasonable time frame, we said here February 25. I'm looking at my CPAC sitting calendar. I see that the time beyond that would be March 12, which means there will be a lot of water under the bridge before that time. Certainly if it's not by March 12, I will be coming back.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Vance Badawey]

Are there any further comments?

I see none, so please go ahead, Mr. Clerk.

[The Clerk]

I guess we're taking it for granted that Mr. Bittle's suggestion was adopted unanimously and that the date is now March 12.

[The Chair, Liberal, Vance Badawey]

That's correct.

(Motion as amended agreed to: yeas 10; nays 0)

We're now going back to Mrs. Kusie.

[Stephanie Kusie, Conservative, Calgary Midnapore, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you very much for the teamwork of this committee and for the patience of our witnesses, who have taken their time to come here today.

Mr. Dias, we know you as the champion of the auto workers.

Let's focus on the workers. How bad is the situation?

[Jerry Dias]

First of all, we have more members who are not working than who are working. The concern is about the financial situation today. Some of our members who are furloughed are receiving nothing.

However, the bigger issue is what will happen when we come through the pandemic. What happens if we don't have a strong industry? What happens when we lose air traffic controllers and pilots to other countries or they've moved into other industries? How are we going to restart the economy that we know is going to need a jump-start?

The frustration that we are all expressing is about where we're at today and, as importantly, where we're going to be tomorrow and next year. This is an industry that is going to take forever to get back on its feet.

We've lived through the bankruptcies of Air Canada, and we've lived through the bankruptcies of the industry in the past. We don't want to go down that road, and that's why there's a lot of frustration today. Of the 20 nations in the world with major industries, Canada is the one that has done the least. One could argue the same is true about Italy.

[Stephanie Kusie, Conservative, Calgary Midnapore, AB]

I'll go now to Mr. Perry. I feel like I know many of our witnesses here far too well, unfortunately, for what they've experienced as leaders in their organizations to this point.

Mr. Perry, can you tell me, please, what percentage of your membership is currently on furlough as a result of COVID?

[Capt Tim Perry]

Tens of thousands of aviation workers are unemployed or furloughed or have had their employment terminated. At ALPA approximately half of our 5,600 Canadian members have been furloughed. I really want to pick up on what Mr. Dias mentioned earlier. The point is that employment is one thing. It is in a very bad and precarious situation, but employment security worsens daily. This number has the potential to grow significantly if the industry remains unsupported. Not only that, but the industry will be unable to support employment to the degree it has historically if it doesn't receive support now.

We have very practical solutions on how to maintain employment as we go forward. It means better air policy, border policy, testing and quarantine measures, but also support for the industry that will allow us to be there in the future. It's not an industry where you can flick the light off and have it just be flicked on again.

[Stephanie Kusie, Conservative, Calgary Midnapore, AB]

Mr. Perry, this is possibly the most important question that will be asked today. Can you explain to our committee why the government support for the industry is in the public interest? I believe we have a committee here, and, more importantly, a government here, that doesn't care about the 200,000 votes of your sector. They see no benefit beyond it, so they've left you behind. Can you tell this committee today, please, why government support for the industry is in the public interest and why they should care about this, especially as we're going into an election here soon?

[Capt Tim Perry]

Canada depends on air transportation perhaps more than other countries in the world. It's in the public interest that the industry not only survives but is in a position to thrive when COVID is behind us. I think it should go without saying that an industry that has the capacity to invest in its future remain environmentally, socially and financially sustainable, and then is able to recover, is in everyone's interest. Those are very important factors. The movement of people, goods and services, for which air transportation is best positioned, is paramount to Canada's recovery.

For those reasons it's in the public interest.

[The Chair, Liberal, Vance Badawey]

Thank you.

Mr. El-Khoury, you have the floor.

[Fayçal El-Khoury, Liberal, Laval—Les Îles, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I welcome the witnesses.

As you know, it is very important to understand the impact of the COVID-19 pandemic on the aviation sector. This may help us find the best way to support that industry.

The pandemic has resulted in a tremendous drop in the number of international and domestic flights, as well as a reduction in the number of passengers. So this sector is really in a critical situation.

My first question is for Wesley Lesosky.

Do you think that support for the aviation sector should be conditional on refunding customers whose flights have been cancelled—

[Doug Shipley, Conservative, Barrie—Springwater—Oro-Medonte, ON]

Chair, I have a point of order. We are not hearing the interpretation.

[The Chair, Liberal, Vance Badawey]

It is working now. Thank you, interpretation team.

Mr. El-Khoury, the floor is yours again.

[Fayçal El-Khoury, Liberal, Laval—Les Îles, QC]

Okay, thank you.

My first question is for Mr. Lesosky.

Do you think that support for the aviation sector should be conditional on refunding customers whose flights have been cancelled by airline companies?

[Wesley Lesosky]

As the president of CUPE's airline division, my focus and my priority are the safety and livelihoods of my members, not the corporate undertakings of the airlines. As people whose lives have been deeply affected by this pandemic from a health perspective and a financial perspective, we strongly reject being used as a political football in these negotiations between the airlines and the federal government. The reality is there are hundreds, if not thousands, of members who can't make rent right now because of the government not acting.