Transport Committee on Jan. 28th, 2021

[Doug Best]

I can liken it to a police officer at an intersection where there's no red light or the lights are out. That officer directs traffic around to make sure that everything flows in a reasonable and very safe manner. If you look at air traffic controllers, that's exactly what we do—at a much higher level, because airplanes can't stop in mid-air. Everything is very fluid.

That's literally what we do. We're constantly moving airplanes around, making sure they get from gate to gate safely every time.

[Michael Kram, Conservative, Regina—Wascana, SK]

Very good.

It's been said a few times at this committee that restarting the air travel sector after the pandemic will not be like switching on a light switch. If Nav Canada were to shut down these air traffic control towers and lay off the aircraft controllers, can you give the committee an idea of some of the challenges Nav Canada would face and some of the impacts on the air-travelling public, if we then had to reopen all these air traffic control towers and rehire all the staff after the pandemic is over?

[Doug Best]

Well, hopefully they will still be around, if they are laid off. If they're not around and have been scooped up by many other air navigation service providers around the world.... As I said before, all trainees, with the exception of a handful, were terminated in September.

With regard to our staffing prior to COVID, if you go back to March 12—that's a day we like to use—we were a bit more than 13% short-staffed. The previous year, Nav Canada spent $100 million on overtime, and with all the retirement incentives that have now been given and the potential layoffs, we could be more than 20% short.

If the expectation is for the airlines and the services to come back—and that's everybody on this call—and if the expectation is for us to be there without any delays, as we have been in the past, or for the most part without delays, it is just not going to be there. It will take years to recover.

[Michael Kram, Conservative, Regina—Wascana, SK]

I see.

On Tuesday, the committee heard testimony from representatives of IBEW and PIPSC, two of the other unions that represent workers at Nav Canada. Those two unions are proposing a $750-million subsidy to Nav Canada, contingent upon a moratorium on layoffs. Does the Air Traffic Control Association share the position of the other two unions?

[Doug Best]

We do, 100%. As I said in my opening statement, we are hopeful that the government will come through with a grant to help enable Nav Canada to not lay off any employees at all, so that we'll be there when the time is right.

[Michael Kram, Conservative, Regina—Wascana, SK]

Have you been able to meet with the transport minister, either the recently sworn-in minister or the previous minister, to present your plans for Nav Canada?

[Doug Best]

Yes, we did meet with Minister Garneau. It was in a community-based meeting through Unifor and Jerry Diaz. Since the new Minister of Transport has taken over, we have not.

[Michael Kram, Conservative, Regina—Wascana, SK]

Can you tell the committee what the previous transport minister said when you presented your plans?

[Doug Best]

He said, “Thank you. We'll get back to you.”

[Michael Kram, Conservative, Regina—Wascana, SK]

Has the minister gotten back to you?

[Doug Best]

The minister, through some of his aides, did respond to some of our concerns. We had subsequent meetings; however, there has obviously been no resolution to date.

[The Chair, Liberal, Vance Badawey]

Mr. Kram, make it a quick one.

[Michael Kram, Conservative, Regina—Wascana, SK]

All right.

Mr. Best, do you know why that is?

[Doug Best]

I honestly do not know. We have spoken with others in government, out of the Prime Minister's Office, as well as with several other MPs—I believe Mr. Bittle may have been one of them at one point in time—but as I said, to date there has been no resolution.

[The Chair, Liberal, Vance Badawey]

Thank you, Mr. Best.

Thank you, Mr. Kram.

We'll now move on to the Liberal Party of Canada,

Mr. Sidhu, the floor is yours for five minutes.

[Maninder Sidhu, Liberal, Brampton East, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to all our witnesses for being here with us today.

Mr. Bruno, you mentioned in your opening statement that you partnered with the government, UBC and other partners for pilot projects. Can you please elaborate on the experience regarding these pilot projects?

[Gerry Bruno]

Yes, our experience with the [Technical difficulty—Editor]. There had not been a lot of traffic, for one thing.

[The Chair, Liberal, Vance Badawey]

Mr. Bruno, can you bring your microphone down a bit, please?

Thank you.

[Gerry Bruno]

The trial was with a few hundred passengers on a volunteer basis, and what it has shown so far is that everyone who has gone through that process has tested negative.

We have not only tested using the antigen test, to get the passengers through quickly, but as a backup we actually put those samples through the more rigorous PCR [Technical difficulty—Editor].

[Maninder Sidhu, Liberal, Brampton East, ON]

Thank you for that, Mr. Bruno.

Mr. Giguere, in your opening statement you mentioned cargo holds being full; however, passenger traffic is down on those same aircraft. I think this is a very important point, because as the government looks at further restrictions to protect all Canadians against new variants, we also cannot forget about the critical cargo that comes in through our airports.

I've had many conversations with constituents in regard to aircraft and flights, and many did not know the full extent of how much cargo such as PPE, vaccines and other critical supplies arrives in Canada on passenger aircraft.

Mr. Giguere, as public health needs change and the threat of new variants arises, do you see the need for government to introduce even stricter travel restrictions?

[Rob Giguere]

I think the key to this is to work with science. Obviously, everyone in Canada wants to make sure our country is safe and that we don't introduce something we can't control from a public health perspective. At the same time, the aviation infrastructure in Canada is like our electrical grid, like our highway network, and we can't let it falter in the long run.

At the beginning of the pandemic, we operated aircraft all around the world to pick up PPE. Aircraft continue to fly, but as the route schedules and network shrink, the capability of moving necessary cargo within Canada and from outside Canada in and out as a trading nation will be diminished.

The actual overall network is significant, and we must be very thoughtful of that in anything we do so that we don't inadvertently damage that network.

[Maninder Sidhu, Liberal, Brampton East, ON]

Thank you for that, Mr. Giguere.

Mr. Ferguson, you mentioned that health and safety is at the forefront for members and the public in your statement as well. You also mentioned that roughly 22,000 of your members work in the aviation and transport sector.

My question for you is very similar to the question for Mr. Giguere. I will repeat the question in case you missed it: As public health needs change and new variants appear, do you see the need for government to introduce even stricter travel restrictions?

[Derek Ferguson]

We also feel, with the science and the public health authorities, etc., that all these actions have to be followed because we are all on the side of worker health and safety, but also the health and safety of the travelling public.

We wouldn't want to be part of anything that harmed the health and safety of the public or our members.

[Maninder Sidhu, Liberal, Brampton East, ON]

Mr. Chair, I know I'm running out of time. This is my last question.

It's a similar question for Mr. Bruno, on further restrictions to international travel. I know various airports have different opinions on this, so I'd like to hear your thoughts.

[Gerry Bruno]

I think we're all very cognizant of the threat of the variants right now. The measures that the government is taking are necessary for a short period of time to settle things down. After that, we need to have a plan [Technical difficulty—Editor].