Transport Committee on Jan. 28th, 2021

[Mike Mueller]

I assume that's in response to our Vision 2025 document. Members may be familiar with the Vision 2025 exercise that we undertook in 2018. At that time, we were concerned about the state of our industry vis-à-vis our international competitors. We had the Honourable Jean Charest join with us. We did consultations across the country.

We identified several different areas of a potential strategy, dedicated to working with the government, small businesses—the skilled labour portion of them—our space industry and our defence industry, as well as ensuring that Transport Canada is a world-class leader.

We went through that exercise. We had some very good discussions with government, but the one thing we're struggling to understand is the hesitancy to join with our industry in developing that strategy, especially in light of COVID-19 when we see that every single one of our competitor countries has a strategy in place. They have sector-specific support in place.

Having listened to the other witnesses here, I think there are some common threads that seem to make a lot of sense. We're really looking forward to working with the government on some sort of a sector strategy.

[Stephanie Kusie, Conservative, Calgary Midnapore, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Mueller.

Ms. Pasher, would you say Atlantic Canadians are feeling isolated at this time, with essentially no air service in and out of their region? Would that be a fair statement? Can you describe the isolation felt by Atlantic Canadians at this time, please?

[Monette Pasher]

I think isolation would describe it in some instances for our communities. When you have to take additional flights, spend additional nights, and add days to your travel to get to work when you're working in essential services right now, I think it's a very challenging situation, as is seeing that your airport is completely shut down with no service and you do not know when it will come back.

Cape Breton Island's economy is based on tourism. It's ranked the number one island in North America. There's no air service.

I think seeing what's happened in the town of Gander, which is built on aviation, and with it losing its connection to the mainland, these are really trying times, and we do feel isolated.

[Stephanie Kusie, Conservative, Calgary Midnapore, AB]

Do you feel Atlantic Canadians are wondering why the government isn't acting to help the airline sector so that Atlantic Canadians don't have to feel so isolated? Are they making the connection between the lack of a plan and the lack of support from this government for the airline sector and the isolation they so rightly feel at this time?

[Monette Pasher]

Yes. We heard the support being announced in November. That's what was going to come, sector-specific support, and here we are at the end of January still waiting, and still wondering what's going to be there for our region and for the sector across the country.

Yes, I think there's a lot of concern. I'm starting to wonder if we're on mute. We really have said what our sector needs to recover. For our larger airports, it's rent relief until the sector recovers, not for one more year.

We really do need operational support for our essential transportation infrastructure right now, and our air carriers need funding. We need our routes restored. We have been very clear on what we require and have said time and time again that it's urgent.

Yes, I think our residents are feeling it as well.

[Stephanie Kusie, Conservative, Calgary Midnapore, AB]

Thank you, Ms. Pasher.

Mr. Bruno, I was very fortunate to meet with Tamara Vrooman in December. I was very impressed with her idea, and the idea behind YVR, of confidence through science, which is an idea that I know is the core of YVR's path forward.

With that, I have two questions.

First, can you comment on the government failing of not implementing rapid testing, testing on arrival, pre-departure testing? Do you think this would have made a difference in terms of traffic flow, market share, etc. at YVR?

Second, this government seems to have continued the narrative of travel shaming, which doesn't accurately portray the data of transmission location. Again, these ideas support the idea of your CEO, Tamara Vrooman, of confidence through science.

Can you comment on those two questions, please?

[Gerry Bruno]

We have been pushing for the idea of testing before departure probably for the last nine months, and we're disappointed that it has taken so long. Measures were introduced just recently because of this new variant of the COVID virus. Now people coming in internationally have to be tested, and they have to get a PCR test, not a rapid test, before departure.

Our view is that we need to test the test, and this is what we're doing at Vancouver today. This should have been done by government early on, so that we know what we're talking about and what we're dealing with.

We were always of the view that, much like with security, it's layered. It's a two-layer test, one 72 hours before departure and one on departure at the airport. That helps screen passengers who could be carrying the virus.

That's always been our position and that's why we do the tests we're doing, but we're in a reactive mode rather than a proactive mode [Technical difficulty—Editor].

[The Chair, Liberal, Vance Badawey]

Thank you, Mr. Bruno. Can you please move your mike down a bit?

Thank you, Mrs. Kusie. Those were great questions.

I'm now going to move on Ms. Jaczek of the Liberal Party.

Ms. Jaczek, you have the floor for six minutes.

[Helena Jaczek, Liberal, Markham—Stouffville, ON]

Thank you, Chair.

First of all, I'd like to say to all the witnesses today that you've made your positions incredibly clear. You've communicated your anxiety and your frustration, particularly about the length of time it's taking to get you the assistance package that our government has committed to.

One thing I've learned as a member of this committee is how complex the aviation sector is. We have so many representatives here today, and we had many on Tuesday as well. We really want to make sure the concerns of all parties are addressed in that assistance package, and you have made absolutely clear the devastating effect that the pandemic has had on you.

My first question is for Mr. Best.

Mr Best, you've talked about service-level changes being proposed by Nav Canada, and I was wondering what kind of role Transport Canada has when service levels are proposed to be changed. Could you elaborate on how the process works?

[Doug Best]

With regard to the level-of-service reviews that are happening in all the towers, that decision is ultimately with the Minister of Transport. He'll have the authority to either agree or not agree with the report, if it even makes it to his desk.

With regard to the service in the area control centres, that's a different situation. That's strictly regulated by Nav Canada. Of course, they have to provide the service, and if they're unable to provide the service, then obviously the minister would have to intervene as well. For the most part, though, staffing in area control centres is strictly Nav Canada; it's under their purview.

[Helena Jaczek, Liberal, Markham—Stouffville, ON]

Okay, thank you. I understand there is the potential for the minister, or the ministry, to get involved in the assessment as well.

In terms of the layoffs that have occurred for air traffic controllers, I presume Nav Canada used the emergency wage subsidy to a certain extent. Could you just break down how many permanent layoffs have occurred?

[Doug Best]

Yes, Nav Canada has been utilizing the wage subsidy. The last I heard, Nav Canada was losing approximately $1.3 million per day, and without that subsidy it would be about $1.8 million per day.

Could you just repeat the second part of your question?

[Helena Jaczek, Liberal, Markham—Stouffville, ON]

I was interested in what proportion are permanent layoffs. In other words, are there some furloughs where people might be recalled and where people are actually accessing their benefits?

I'm just trying to get a picture of the number of full-time layoffs.

[Doug Best]

The permanent reduction at Nav Canada stands at around 750 people so far. We were at about 5,200, now down to about 4,500, and there are more on the block, as has been mentioned. As for permanent layoffs, it's a little different. Some people took early retirement incentives. I can also advise you that we did have 150 trainees—our future—who were terminated on September 22, so there is nobody coming up behind us old dogs who are going to be retiring at some point.

[Helena Jaczek, Liberal, Markham—Stouffville, ON]

Perhaps you could elaborate a little bit on those trainees. I understand it takes three years or so to fulfill the requirements to be a qualified air traffic controller. Were some of these trainees just at the beginning of their training? Do we have some still in process who were perhaps closer to finishing? Could you elaborate on the picture there?

[Doug Best]

With regard to the trainees, we do have several in the system—a handful, I'm going to guess, right now. They were kept around and were very close to qualification. It does take upwards of two or three years. In some cases it is less, depending on where you work, but the schooling takes approximately a year, followed by a year of on-the-job training.

[Helena Jaczek, Liberal, Markham—Stouffville, ON]

I'll move on to Mr. Giguere.

I remember you well from when I was at the Ontario legislature and you were appointed chief operating officer at Ornge, when Ornge was going through a complete renovation, I guess I should say.

Mr. Giguere, in your experience now with the Air Canada Pilots Association.... Obviously, safety is absolutely crucial. Have your pilots had any anxiety around what Mr. Best has been saying about safety and service levels?

[The Chair, Liberal, Vance Badawey]

It looks like Mr. Giguere may be frozen.

We've lost Mr. Giguere.

My apologies, Ms. Jaczek. Maybe one of the members following you can ask that same question.

[Helena Jaczek, Liberal, Markham—Stouffville, ON]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Vance Badawey]

We're now going to move on to the Bloc.

Mr. Barsalou-Duval, the floor is yours for six minutes.

[Xavier Barsalou-Duval, Bloc, Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Mueller, I appreciated hearing you talk about the importance of having an aerospace strategy. In Quebec, this sector is our main source of exports. Workers in this industry also earn good wages. Unfortunately, it seems that this sector was neglected by the government, not only during but also before the pandemic. For example, the government refused to acknowledge the importance of an aerospace supercluster in Montreal.

I want to know whether you've had the opportunity to talk to government officials and ask them why there isn't any aerospace strategy in place and why there isn't any support for the sector.

[Mike Mueller]

Thank you for the question. We definitely appreciate the support of your colleague on our aerospace caucus.

I would say that we have been asking for that sector-specific approach and sector-specific strategy, working in close collaboration with our colleagues in Quebec. We understood before that it wasn't a priority of the government and that it was a policy option. We didn't agree with that, but we understood that it was a policy option. What we can't understand now, even just hearing from all the other witnesses and seeing the COVID-19-related challenges facing our industry, is why that isn't an option, especially when our competitor countries are also doubling down on these types of strategies.

The one thing I will say is that the jobs that we employ are well-paying jobs, with wages that are 25% higher than in average manufacturing jobs. This is absolutely critical. As I mentioned in my opening remarks, the competitive advantage that we have here in Canada and in Quebec is our skilled workforce. Without that support, I'm worried we're going to lose that competitive advantage. We have a real opportunity to contribute to the economic recovery through a sector like this.

[Xavier Barsalou-Duval, Bloc, Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC]

So you've been told that the aerospace sector isn't a priority for this government.

[Mike Mueller]

We're looking for a sector-specific approach. We could understand the sector-agnostic approach that they took previously. We didn't agree with that, but we're definitely looking for support for the sector and support for that overall strategy. I would agree with the other witnesses here that now is the time to get on with that.

[Xavier Barsalou-Duval, Bloc, Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC]

We're currently talking about the assistance for the aviation sector that the government has been promising for a long time. We wonder whether it will come through. We're also hearing about companies cancelling orders for aircraft that would be manufactured in the country, such as the A220 aircraft manufactured in Mirabel.

Do you think that, as part of the conditions for the government's assistance, there should be a requirement to favour the purchase of aircraft made here, rather than the purchase of aircraft such as the 737 MAX, which were manufactured elsewhere and which have been grounded for a very long time?