Evidence of meeting #15 for Transport, Infrastructure and Communities in the 43rd Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was employees.
A recording is available from Parliament.
4:30 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Vance Badawey
We're now going to move on to the Conservatives.
Mr. Shipley, you have the floor for five minutes.
4:30 p.m.
Conservative
Doug Shipley Conservative Barrie—Springwater—Oro-Medonte, ON
Thank you, Mr. Chair. You caught me a little off guard. I actually thought at 4:30 we were ending, but thank you for that time.
4:30 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Vance Badawey
I'm going to try to finish off this round with you and, following you, Mr. El-Khoury.
4:30 p.m.
Conservative
Doug Shipley Conservative Barrie—Springwater—Oro-Medonte, ON
That's okay. As I said, I thought we were ending, but I'm good to go.
I'll start off then with Mr. Rheault. You mentioned in your opening statement that there was a burn rate of $15 million per day. Did I catch [Technical difficulty—Editor] right?
4:30 p.m.
Conservative
Doug Shipley Conservative Barrie—Springwater—Oro-Medonte, ON
Was that prior concessions for business, or is that what's happening now?
4:30 p.m.
Managing Director, Government Affairs and Community Relations, Air Canada
I'm sorry; I had an issue. My sound cut. Could you just repeat? I heard until “$15 million per day.”
4:30 p.m.
Conservative
Doug Shipley Conservative Barrie—Springwater—Oro-Medonte, ON
I was just saying that in your opening statement, you mentioned a burn rate of $15 million per day. Was that prior to the layoffs and prior to making your savings, or is that what it's now currently?
4:30 p.m.
Managing Director, Government Affairs and Community Relations, Air Canada
This is current, based on the guidance for the third quarter...or the fourth quarter of last year. It's between $14 and $16 million per day.
4:30 p.m.
Conservative
Doug Shipley Conservative Barrie—Springwater—Oro-Medonte, ON
We'll call it $15 million. That's a lot of money per day. You must be doing some business plans. How long can you keep this up for? As Mr. Kram mentioned at our last meeting, some people within your company were telling us that perhaps they're expecting a five to seven-year downturn. There's no way you can continue to burn $15 million per day indefinitely.
4:30 p.m.
Managing Director, Government Affairs and Community Relations, Air Canada
There is no company, no matter its size, that can burn that amount of money for an infinite period. That's why we really have to have a plan to restart, to understand how traffic...how we can safely restart travel in this country and, in the meantime, how government can support carriers to go through this pandemic with long-term financing. It's not a situation that can stay for months and months, that's for sure.
4:30 p.m.
Conservative
Doug Shipley Conservative Barrie—Springwater—Oro-Medonte, ON
Thank you.
Mr. Chair, I'll go over to Mr. Gibbons, too, because it's been interesting.... It was just mentioned...about the restart plan.
This is something that I'm very curious about. We're in a terrible position right now, Mr. Gibbons. We have to get people back to work at some point in time—safely, obviously. You mentioned.... There are a couple of things that I want to mention to you. You mentioned 14,000 employees at WestJet; many have left. Where have they gone? Have they gone on to other companies? Did you mean they were the layoffs from your company? Have they left to pursue other work and now you won't be able to get people back when the start-up eventually comes?
4:35 p.m.
Director, Government Relations and Regulatory Affairs, WestJet Airlines Ltd.
It's a mixed bag. Not dissimilar to Air Canada, there are employees that we could safely assume would not return in the near term, and they have left the company. Many are struggling. We are headquartered in Alberta. It's a struggle. I think that's why it's been obvious how central we are to the economic diversification in Alberta and how a global carrier based in Alberta is essential.
We are worried about skills. We are worried about skills expiring if the downturn continues. We've had employees.... If you go on Facebook or these groups—and I hope that they're engaging you—people are very sad. The human toll on our company has been profound, and I think we're out of adjectives to describe it, except to say that it's just been very, very sad. I don't know if that answers your question specifically. For many, it's been a struggle. Many have moved to other sectors, and many remain hopeful.
4:35 p.m.
Conservative
Doug Shipley Conservative Barrie—Springwater—Oro-Medonte, ON
Yes, it does answer it. Thank you.
Mr. Gibbons, I hear what you're saying too. At one of our last meetings, I mentioned the mental health of a lot of the employees. We had a stack of letters that I brought up last time. My heart goes out to the many people, not just in your industry but across Canada, who are struggling greatly right now. We want to make sure they're being looked after. I'm sure that within your company you're doing everything you can to make sure that your people who are feeling added stress and having some mental health issues are getting looked after.
With respect to the start-up plan, there have to be a lot of aircraft sitting around right now. I'm not an aircraft mechanic, but someone mentioned to me that until there is a start-up plan to get going, it is harmful for planes to be just sitting around. How long can they sit on tarmacs not be used before it becomes an issue? Also, does it take a while to get them recertified once there is a restart?
I'll start with Mr. Gibbons.
4:35 p.m.
Director, Government Relations and Regulatory Affairs, WestJet Airlines Ltd.
That is a great question. My lack of technical expertise is going to be fully exposed here. My kindergarten-like understanding is that there's a rotational system that keeps the engines fresh. They don't just sit forever; they do have to move in and out. There is a maintenance program that is required for upkeep, whether or not they are flying and in commercial service.
The planes will be there to use. The MAX is a good example. That was a grounded fleet, but it's now starting to be reintroduced into the market. So I think you could use that as guidance in terms of whether the aircraft will be there. It's a question of all of the other things that might not be there when the economic and health conditions change.
4:35 p.m.
Managing Director, Government Affairs and Community Relations, Air Canada
Like Mr. Gibbons, I'm not a technical expert, but there is in fact some basic preservation work that can be done to aircraft, and the airlines are doing this work to make sure that the fleet can fly when the time comes.
I would say that the most challenging thing in this regard is also keeping the certification of the pilots. Pilots need to fly so that they do not lose their qualifications to fly, so there is a rotation to ensure that. These are highly skilled workers. They need to work and we need to have a plan to make sure that they keep their certification.
4:35 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Vance Badawey
Thank you, Mr. Rheault and Mr. Shipley.
We're now going to move to our last speaker for five minutes from the Liberals.
Mr. El-Khoury, you have the floor.
February 4th, 2021 / 4:35 p.m.
Liberal
Fayçal El-Khoury Liberal Laval—Les Îles, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I would like to welcome our guests.
Mr. Gibbons, I was pleased to hear that your company has decided to refund passengers. I have heard that passengers who proactively cancelled their tickets based on Health Canada's advice and recommendations have not been refunded.
Did a decision like that push you to difficult measures, like laying off more employees?
In addition, will this crisis alleviate or aggravate the pilot shortage that was a factor before the pandemic?
4:40 p.m.
Director, Government Relations and Regulatory Affairs, WestJet Airlines Ltd.
Thank you for your question, Mr. El-Khoury.
Allow me to respond in English.
If I heard you correctly, Mr. El-Khoury, there were two questions.
Question one was that you appreciate our refund policy. Thank you very much for those words.
The distinction between guest cancellations and carrier cancellations is a really important one. It's a distinction that exists in the United States and the United Kingdom, which are jurisdictions that the consumer advocates are pointing toward. I want to make that distinction. It is an important one that doesn't get a lot of remarks in the public sphere, but it is a critical distinction in how the government and your committee look at the issue.
I missed in the translation what you were asking about with respect to whether the refunds were making things difficult. I didn't quite get that, so if I could get clarity—
4:40 p.m.
Liberal
Fayçal El-Khoury Liberal Laval—Les Îles, QC
Did the refunds influence you to make the decision to lay off some employees?
4:40 p.m.
Director, Government Relations and Regulatory Affairs, WestJet Airlines Ltd.
Everything is an incredible balance. You have operational uncertainty. You have our commitment to do right by Canadians. You have our obligation to our employees. Everything is a really difficult balance.
Look at the situation facing travel advisers and travel agents. As a result of refunds, they are in some very difficult circumstances. We sympathize with them and acknowledge that, and we think that the government should resolve those issues. There is an incredible and delicate balance with respect to all of those items.
On refunds, we felt it was the right thing to do and we did it. It's a process that's going to take six to nine months, and we're in the middle of that right now. Canadians are getting their refunds and we're pleased to provide them.
4:40 p.m.
Managing Director, Government Affairs and Community Relations, Air Canada
The question was directed at Mr. Gibbons. So I will hold off, unless Mr. El-Khoury has a question for me.
4:40 p.m.
Liberal
Fayçal El-Khoury Liberal Laval—Les Îles, QC
I do have one.
Mr. Rheault, we're aware that, in order to provide financial assistance, the federal government has imposed conditions on several issues, such as refunding customers whose flights were cancelled, protecting regional routes and connectivity, honouring contracts with Canadian aerospace companies and paying travel agency commissions. Which of these issues is most problematic for the airlines? Could you tell us more about it, please?