Transport Committee on Feb. 18th, 2021

[The Chair, Liberal, Vance Badawey]

Thank you.

Thank you, Minister Alghabra. I know it's past 4:30, and I do appreciate your spending some more time to give the Conservatives an allowance to spend more time with you.

I also want to express my appreciation to members. I think we had a good dialogue there.

To Minister Alghabra, I have two pet projects that I really appreciated your mentioning today, based on some questions that you received. Those are the refunds for customers, as well as looking at the clawbacks for travel agents. There's no doubt that those are very sensitive issues, not only for us in a broader way as a country but for individual jurisdictions, individual ridings. I truly appreciate the attention you're giving to that, and we're hoping for a good outcome, both for the customers with refunds as well as for the travel agents with clawbacks. We hope that discussion continues with the airlines with respect to your negotiations.

With that, once again to all of you, thank you.

To Minister Alghabra, thank you very much.

[Omar Alghabra, Liberal, Mississauga Centre, ON]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair, and thank you to my colleagues.

Have a great afternoon.

[The Chair, Liberal, Vance Badawey]

Enjoy.

Members, we're now going to continue. We have members of the team with us, so we can continue this dialogue. I am going to continue on now with the Liberals.

Mr. Rogers, you have the floor for five minutes.

[Churence Rogers, Liberal, Bonavista—Burin—Trinity, NL]

Thanks, Chair.

First of all, let me apologize for joining late. I had some technical difficulties that had to be ironed out, and I'm glad to be able to join. Unfortunately, I missed some of the minister's opening remarks and some of your questioning. My questions were actually for the minister, but I'll put them out there and hope that some of the witnesses can make a comment on what I'm about to ask.

We all know, of course, and we don't need to repeat the significant impact of COVID on the air sector. I have a couple of questions pertaining to that. I want to know from the officials if they can comment on this. We know there are a number of issues that are at play in the negotiations with the airlines—reimbursement of passengers, regional connectivity, honouring the aerospace contracts, and so forth.

Can you comment on which of these issues is proving to be the most difficult to reach an agreement on?

[Michael Keenan, Deputy Minister, Department of Transport]

Thank you for the question. It's a very good question.

As the minister said that the government is taking a series of actions. There are now various active and intense discussions and negotiations on a package with the airlines. It's really impossible to comment on the details of those at this time, unfortunately. I think all of those factors are important. All of those factors are in discussion, and they're searching for an agreement that both sides will support and that will address all of those factors.

[Churence Rogers, Liberal, Bonavista—Burin—Trinity, NL]

Recently, we've been hearing some media reports that we may be close to reaching an agreement with the airline industry and some kind of a package that will try to support all of the employees and the people who are out of work, and the different organizations that are depending on us as a government to get an agreement in place with the airline industry.

Of course, it's a two-way partnership. How optimistic are you that we're really close to some kind of an agreement?

[Michael Keenan]

As the minister said, he's very keen to see an agreement as soon as possible. Because discussions are under way—they are complex, and the impact on the sector has been very deep—it's really impossible to speculate about exactly when these negotiations will conclude, other than to say that negotiations are very active. I think both sides are working as quickly as they can to conclude them.

[Churence Rogers, Liberal, Bonavista—Burin—Trinity, NL]

I also want a comment relating to NAV CANADA.

Mr. Keenan, are you aware that the 27 controllers in Gander who have received layoff notices represent 40% of the air traffic controllers who look after aircraft in the north Atlantic, and are you concerned about the safety implications of this kind of move?

[Michael Keenan]

Frankly, transportation safety is our number one priority. Of all of the objectives of Transport Canada, it comes first, and we've been watching very carefully because of the devastating impact of COVID-19 on the travel sector. We've been working diligently all year to ensure that transportation remains safe in terms of accidents and safe in terms of COVID for anybody in the system.

With respect to NavCan, I could say this: To change their level of service, NavCan has to carry out consultations and studies, and they are only allowed to change their level of service if Transport Canada reviews the proposed change and concurs that it doesn't sacrifice safety. I can assure you that the officials at Transport Canada will not approve any proposed level of service change from NavCan unless we are assured after a very thorough review that it does not impair air safety.

[Churence Rogers, Liberal, Bonavista—Burin—Trinity, NL]

I have one final question regarding the blue economy that the Minister of Fisheries and others announced just recently. I want Mr. Keenan to comment on that and elaborate on how creating a blue economy strategy can be operationalized. What does it mean, specifically?

[Michael Keenan]

It's a great question.

Transport Canada is working very closely with Fisheries and Oceans, as Minister Jordan is the lead on the blue economy initiative. We focus very much on issues around safety for the environment and safety for Canadians and safety for mariners in terms of ocean issues. The blue economy is an opportunity to responsibly take into account the incredible natural wealth and environment of Canada's oceans for the benefit of Canadians. We're committed to working very closely with Fisheries and Oceans in ensuring transportation safety and environmental safety. We continue to strive for excellence in that area in support of the broader blue economy.

In terms of how it's going to be operationalized, I think Minister Jordan has just begun consultations with Canadians on the blue economy. The results of that consultation will shape the government's plans going forward to operationalize the blue economy strategy.

[The Chair, Liberal, Vance Badawey]

Thank you, Mr. Keenan, and thank you, Mr. Rogers.

We're now going to move on to our third round. We have first, with the Conservatives, Mr. Shipley, followed by Mr. Bittle from the Liberals, Mr. Barsalou-Duval from the Bloc, and Mr. Bachrach from the NDP.

Mr. Shipley, you have the floor for five minutes.

[Doug Shipley, Conservative, Barrie—Springwater—Oro-Medonte, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'll start by directing my questions to Mr. Keenan, and if he wants to pass them off to any of his assistants, that's fine.

Chair, I know this was touched on earlier by Mrs. Kusie and actually even you at the end of this last talk. It seems to be important to you, too.

I had the opportunity this morning to have a very good meeting with the Association of Canadian Independent Travel Advisors. It's a group of over 1,200 members, led by a local woman, Judith Coates. They expressed some dire concerns. This is a group that is hanging on literally by their fingernails, and I don't mean that lightly. They are struggling. They've already lost well over 200 of their independent travel advisers in different retail locations. Many of them are sole providers for their families, and they're struggling. They have great concerns about clawbacks and commission recalls. They told me they were going to be watching today.

Mr. Keenan, could we get some reassurance for these hard-working Canadians that there will be some type of deal made so they will not have to pay back their commission recalls and clawbacks?

[Michael Keenan]

As the member indicated, the devastating impact of COVID-19 on the travel industry, writ large, and the air travel industry has hit the independent travel agents hard. They're some of the many Canadians who have felt the impact.

As the minister said, the government has put in place a series of programs to help Canadians through these impacts: the CERB, the wage subsidy, etc. The particular issue of the impact on travel agent commissions with respect to refunds is an issue that the government has recognized as an important one, and it is an element in the discussions with the major airlines in terms of a package and a plan on a way forward.

[Doug Shipley, Conservative, Barrie—Springwater—Oro-Medonte, ON]

Thank you. Hopefully, there will be a happy ending for them because I know that these people are struggling right now. They're losing sleep. They're having trouble paying their bills at home as it is. Quite frankly, they just don't have the money to pay back those commissions, and it will be putting a lot of them—a lot—out of business.

I also have recently been talking to Ms. Roe in my riding. Ms. Roe, through tragic events, has to travel to Australia during the pandemic to deal with some ailing family members. This lady is not going vacationing on the beach. She is strictly trying to get to Australia to look after some loved ones. The cost for her when she returns—the $2,000 for three days—is just not going to be doable.

When she goes to Australia, they have a program in place. She actually has to quarantine for 14 days at an approved hotel, similar to our program. She only has to pay $3,000.

Where is this astronomical cost of $2,000 for three days coming from, Mr. Keenan?

[Michael Keenan]

I can provide a general answer, but the authority on this is the Public Health Agency of Canada, because the establishment of the arrival testing protocol at the four major airports and the requirement to stay in airport hotels is a program that they're currently rolling out now.

The $2,000 was their initial estimate of the total cost of the process of arriving in the airport, being tested and being transported to a hotel for three days pending the results of that initial arrival test. The actual cost is the product of the quotes that the hotels have provided, and it includes not just the three-day stay at the hotel, but the transportation. It includes additional security. It includes additional health protocols to reflect the fact that the people staying in the hotel are pending a COVID test that could include one of the variants of concern.

The actual cost of that is based on the quote for the whole package of services that is being provided for that process, and the $2,000 is an initial estimate of what it would be. The actual numbers are coming out in the coming days, and the details can be provided by the Public Health Agency of Canada.

[Doug Shipley, Conservative, Barrie—Springwater—Oro-Medonte, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Keenan.

When you say those numbers are coming out, I definitely hope they're coming out lower and not higher. I've done a lot of travelling, and you have to stay in some awfully nice hotels to get anywhere near that number.

Are you aware...? Will there be...? We can get back to Ms. Roe, again. Will there be some—

[The Chair, Liberal, Vance Badawey]

Mr. Shipley, I'm sorry. Your time is up.

Actually, I was trying to say that, but then I realized I was on mute.

[Doug Shipley, Conservative, Barrie—Springwater—Oro-Medonte, ON]

I didn't see the yellow hand, Mr. Chair, so I was ready to go.

[The Chair, Liberal, Vance Badawey]

Actually, I had it up and then I took it down when you hit that five-minute mark.

[Doug Shipley, Conservative, Barrie—Springwater—Oro-Medonte, ON]

I'm sorry. I didn't see it.

[The Chair, Liberal, Vance Badawey]

Then, of course, I started talking and realized I was on mute. You have my apologies, but that was a great job, guys.

I am going to move over to Mr. Bittle now, and I understand that Mr. Bittle is going to give half of his time to Ms. May.

Mr. Bittle, you can start off for two and a half minutes. I'll let you know when you run out of time, and then we'll go on to Ms. May.

Mr. Bittle, you have the floor.

[Chris Bittle, Liberal, St. Catharines, ON]

That sounds good. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Looking at the minister's supplementary mandate letter, I see that it stipulates that he will:

Work with the Minister of Foreign Affairs to implement recommendations and lessons learned from the report of the Special Advisor for Canada's ongoing response to the Ukraine International...tragedy, including commemorating the lives of the victims and supporting their families, pursuing truth and accountability from Iran, and preventing future disasters through the Safer Skies Initiative.

I was hoping you could elaborate on the safer skies initiative. What does that seek to achieve?

[Michael Keenan]

Indeed, the PS752 was a horrific tragedy, just like MH17 a few years before. The objective of the safer skies initiative is to try to prevent these kinds of tragedies that come from civil aviation caught in conflict zones.

The strategy is, first, to foster information sharing. It's an issue where Canada has taken the lead internationally. The objectives are to foster information sharing within the global community and among countries to create a better sense, across all civil aviation authorities, of where there are risks from conflict zones to civil aviation; to encourage civil aviation authorities around the world to require operators to have very strong risk management plans and protocols to deal with any emerging conflict that happens in any area they're operating, and quite frankly, to improve governance around this; and to have a more coordinated approach to banning civil aviation from conflict zones where the country in which there is conflict or a risk of conflict is not itself banning flights.

I would add that in early December, the department, with the previous minister, led an international conference on this and they got over 400 participants from around the world. We are seeing a really encouraging level of buy-in from civil aviation authorities around the world. They want to change practices around managing civil aviation in conflict zones to avoid ever again having to deal with the kind of horrible tragedy we saw with PS752.

[The Chair, Liberal, Vance Badawey]

Thank you, Mr. Keenan.

Thank you, Mr. Bittle.

We're now going to move on to Ms. May.

You have the floor for two and a half minutes.