Transport Committee on Feb. 25th, 2021

[Catherine McKenna, Liberal, Ottawa Centre, ON]

I 100% stand by that priority.

We have a climate lens. That is actually a shout-out to my parliamentary secretary, who's here. I thank Andy Fillmore who brought in a private member's bill.

I believe you probably were there in support of that. Actually, you are new, so maybe your predecessor supported that. For every project over $10 million, or in the green infrastructure stream, there's a climate lens. I've been working hard on that. That is definitely something that is critically important, and we also need to make sure that we look at how we apply it across the board, to every single project, but without creating huge bureaucracy, because many of these are projects through the infrastructure program with provinces, territories, and municipalities, and capacity is not huge, so we need to be supporting them. It is incredibly important and it's good to see in the United States that they have said that as well.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Minister, your department's response to my order paper question showed that only 94 of the 962 infrastructure projects your department has funded were subject to the climate lens assessment.

I'm trying to square your statement that the climate lens has to be applied to everything we do with the fact that only 10% of the projects your department has funded have actually undergone a climate lens assessment.

How you do reconcile these two things?

[Catherine McKenna, Liberal, Ottawa Centre, ON]

The private member's bill was about projects that were $10 million and over, but we fund a lot of smaller projects.

As I said, I'm working very hard, and I'm happy to work with the member opposite, through a very practical approach, because I agree with you. I agree that every single project should undergo a climate lens. There is push-back, I will tell you, from certain provinces, and for smaller communities, getting the capacity to apply a climate lens can be a challenge, so I think we need to be mindful of that. The reality is that this is the way we have to go.

I agree with you that we have to be net zero by 2050; we need to exceed our 2030 target, and we have an opportunity because—guess what—buildings can now be built net zero. Retrofits can be harder for smaller communities and remote communities, but we have the technology in many cases, and now we need to apply the climate lens, create the right incentives, and move forward to a cleaner future.

[The Chair, Liberal, Vance Badawey]

Thank you, Minister, and Mr. Bachrach.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Vance Badawey]

We're now going to move on to our second round.

Leading off for Conservatives, we have Ms. Kusie, followed by Mr. Fillmore for the Liberals, Mr. Barsalou-Duval for the Bloc and Mr. Bachrach for the NDP. The first two speakers have five minutes. Mr. Barsalou-Duval and Mr. Bachrach each have two and a half minutes.

Ms. Kusie, the floor is yours for five minutes.

[Stephanie Kusie, Conservative, Calgary Midnapore, AB]

Thank you, Chair, and hello, Minister. It's very nice to see you once again.

Minister, I will start where I left off the last time we got together, and that was with executive compensation. We had a conversation the last time about Monsieur Pierre Lavallee, who, when he departed from the Infrastructure Bank in April of 2020—well into the pandemic—received executive compensation of $600,000 at a time when we were just heading into the worst economic times Canada has ever known.

Also, of course, I understand that his predecessor, Mr. Michael Sabia, departed in October. Can you please inform the committee of whether or not Mr. Sabia also received extravagant executive compensation?

[Catherine McKenna, Liberal, Ottawa Centre, ON]

Let's be clear that Crown corporations work at arm's length from the government, and the rate of remuneration is based on the recommendation of the board and approved by the Governor in Council.

Michael Sabia, who is now serving as deputy minister of finance, was board chair. I don't know that you get extravagant compensation as chair. It's between $90,000 and $100,000 a year.

I will say that we do have a new CEO, and the Canada Infrastructure Bank has been very transparent about the CEO's salary. His base salary range is...the total compensation is 40% lower than the previous CEO's. I have high hopes for Mr. Cory as CEO. He comes from Infrastructure Ontario. I think we're in a new stage at the bank. It was very important to me personally to get the bank on track to really deliver, especially now, because we are in the greatest recession since the Great Depression.

[Stephanie Kusie, Conservative, Calgary Midnapore, AB]

Speaking of Mr. Sabia, Minister, have you had an opportunity to keep in touch with him? Do you have any idea if he is close to completing the plan for the airline sector? Since I'm certain that you would have been in good contact with him before, has he communicated that to you at all?

[Catherine McKenna, Liberal, Ottawa Centre, ON]

He's in a very different role from when I worked with him before—

[Stephanie Kusie, Conservative, Calgary Midnapore, AB]

Okay. I just thought perhaps you were communicating—

[Catherine McKenna, Liberal, Ottawa Centre, ON]

I know he is working very hard.

[Stephanie Kusie, Conservative, Calgary Midnapore, AB]

Okay. Well, we hope to see a plan soon.

[Catherine McKenna, Liberal, Ottawa Centre, ON]

Obviously, it is very important that we help support the aviation sector. That's a critical priority of our government, so I can be sure, though I haven't talked to him about it, that he is working on it. I do know that the Minister of Finance and other ministers are working very hard—

[Stephanie Kusie, Conservative, Calgary Midnapore, AB]

Okay. That's a “no”, Minister. Thank you very much.

My second question has to do with a project that you've mentioned several times and that your colleagues in the last meeting mentioned as well. It's the Alberta irrigation project. Actually, every time I hear the name of this project, it's like nails on a chalkboard to me, because I'm not certain how you could possibly feel that one infrastructure bank project could replace an entire industry, which your government, under your helm, destroyed, and that is the natural resources sector. That was a result of the implementation of Bill C-69, Bill C-48 and the carbon tax.

Also, just yesterday, your government had an opportunity to help offset that by supporting the agricultural sector, which you claim you are trying to help with the Alberta irrigation project, by supporting Bill C-206, and instead, you and your government didn't support it. You voted against it.

How can you possibly feel that a single project for Alberta could resolve the entire destruction of the industry here under your leadership over the last five years?

[Catherine McKenna, Liberal, Ottawa Centre, ON]

There are so many ways to answer that question, but first of all, I would just emphasize that this is a project that was extremely important to the Government of Alberta—

[Stephanie Kusie, Conservative, Calgary Midnapore, AB]

The premier would agree with me, Minister, that you were highly responsible for destroying the natural resources sector here, so I'm sure he appreciates this pittance after the rest of our industry was destroyed.

[Catherine McKenna, Liberal, Ottawa Centre, ON]

You know, I would actually like a second to be able to answer this, because that is absolutely false. Our focus has been on how we work with all provinces and territories, how we grow our economy and how we make investments in infrastructure that make a huge difference, including in your own riding. I could go through all the projects that have happened in your own riding.

Also, yes, climate change is real, so we need to be figuring out how we move to a low-carbon future with the people of Alberta, with workers in Alberta, with workers in Saskatchewan—

[Stephanie Kusie, Conservative, Calgary Midnapore, AB]

Also, workers in the rest of the economy.... I'm not sure how you and your government, having completed zero projects in three years with a budget of $35 billion, could possibly expect to lead this country out of this pandemic, create jobs and restart the economy, Minister.

[Catherine McKenna, Liberal, Ottawa Centre, ON]

I guess I would like to know, if your party were ever in power, if you would cut $18 billion, like you said you would do, in infrastructure projects. Would you kill the Canada Infrastructure Bank? Would you go back in time—

[Stephanie Kusie, Conservative, Calgary Midnapore, AB]

It wouldn't destroy two entire industries, both the airline industry and natural resource—

[The Chair, Liberal, Vance Badawey]

Thank you, Minister McKenna and Ms. Kusie.

[Stephanie Kusie, Conservative, Calgary Midnapore, AB]

—like yours has, Minister.

[Catherine McKenna, Liberal, Ottawa Centre, ON]

—[Inaudible--Editor] and our climate plan. I think Canadians would love to know that.

[Stephanie Kusie, Conservative, Calgary Midnapore, AB]

Thank you, Chair.