Transport Committee on June 10th, 2021

[Amirali Alavi, Representative, Association of Families of Flight PS752 Victims]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I think my friends here covered most things. I will add, however, that this is not about justice and truth for the families only. This is much greater than that. It is also about standing up for Canada as a country. It is about stopping a ruthless regime from taking the lives of innocent world citizens.

Canada needs to know about the reports of Iranian airport authorities screening out people who hold American passports. They ask specifically, every passenger, whether they have American passports. Having in mind that this was an intentional premeditated attack, according to the evidence we have, on the balance of probabilities, why should the Iranian regime care about American lives, but not those of Canadians?

What we need to see from our government now, in response to this horrific mass murder, is a comprehensive plan. We need to take leadership in the world and condemn Iran at ICAO. We need to build alliances and coalitions to press the Iranian regime, to put truth and justice for PS752 as a priority in all talks, including the JCPOA talks. We need to take Iran to the International Court of Justice and expedite the negotiation process. We need to start a criminal investigation in Canada; issue a travel advisory, like what was done for the case in Belarus; impose targeted Magnitsky sanctions on individuals who were responsible; list the IRGC as a terrorist entity; and unequivocally reject the fabricated scenario of human error, once and for all.

The response of the government following the release of the forensic report is crucial. What we need to see here is a focused and comprehensive plan.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Vance Badawey]

Thank you, Mr. Alavi.

Thank you, Mrs. Kusie.

Our next set of questions will be from the Liberals.

Mr. Ehsassi, you have the floor.

[Ali Ehsassi, Liberal, Willowdale, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Mr. Esmaeilion, Mr. Alavi and Mr. Doustshenas. I can't possibly ever imagine how difficult it has been over the past year and a half.

Every step of the way, the Iranian government has been acting with impunity, and that has barred you from knowing the facts of the case. Today we heard from Ms. Fox. She is a technical expert. She actually prepared notes on Iran's draft report. You know full well that the final report that was released is, in your own words, “shambolic”. Would you like it if Ms. Fox's report were released, so that you would have more access to the facts?

[Dr. Hamed Esmaeilion]

Thank you, Mr. Ehsassi. Absolutely. We need to know what was sent to TSB from Ukraine. Ukraine, as the country of the owner of the airplane, had access to some information. That was shared with TSB. We need to have access to that.

We need to know: When Mr. Tasker went to Iran, what did he find? He said in his testimony today that he had a chance to go to the crash site, but what did he see at the crash site? Everything was looted. Everything was bulldozed away. I think in their press conference and in their report to the public, they had to mention that. They had to mention that Iran had breached every single regulation in annex 13. They had to say that Iran's airspace is not safe.

I have heard from Ms. Fox that she is not in a position to say that, but as Mr. Goodale said today, Iran's airspace is not safe. That's is the TSB's job, and the job of the air safety organizations, to point to that.

Thank you.

[Ali Ehsassi, Liberal, Willowdale, ON]

Thank you for that.

Now, terrible things have happened over the course of the past year and a half. One thing that I am obviously well aware of is how you have been intimidated in Canada. All of you have been intimidated. Would you mind explaining to the members of this committee what has happened here, on Canadian soil?

[Dr. Hamed Esmaeilion]

It's not just me. There are 12 family members in Canada who have been intimidated and harassed and threatened. Imagine what they do in Iran. Imagine what they do with their family members in Iran. We saw in the Human Rights Watch report on May 27 that at least one family member was tortured in Iran.

They have a cyber-army and they use it on different social media platforms. They send us messages from fake and real accounts. We have shared that information with the RCMP.

Kourosh mentioned the RCMP before. I think we need to see something. We need to see the outcome of this investigation and what they have done, especially with regard to the criminal case. If you don't open the criminal case here and if you don't put everything together as a comprehensive job, I think we can't find the truth and we can't teach them the lesson that they can't interfere with Canadian citizens here in Canada.

[Ali Ehsassi, Liberal, Willowdale, ON]

Would either of the other two witnesses like to add to that?

[Amirali Alavi]

Hamed spoke for me as well. I won't take more time.

[Kourosh Doustshenas]

I don't have anything to add on that one. Thanks.

[Ali Ehsassi, Liberal, Willowdale, ON]

In terms of priorities, what would you say your priority is right now as an association?

[Dr. Hamed Esmaeilion]

As I mentioned before, we have some demands. We are waiting for the forensic report from Canada. I think it's going to be out probably next week, but after this report is out, we have to state clearly that the downing of PS752 was not an accident, was not a mistake, was not a human error, was not a systemic failure. We have to get to the point....

All of us saw Belarus. It came out as an example today. We like it that all the countries are working in a group to put a sanction on Belarusian airspace. I'm happy that no passengers on the Ryanair flight died, but here we have 176 victims. Speaking clearly after the report is out, putting the IRGC on a terrorist list, using the Magnitsky act, and leading these five countries in a very difficult and long journey to justice is, I think, very important.

[The Chair, Liberal, Vance Badawey]

Thank you, Mr. Esmaeilion.

Mr. Ehsassi, go ahead.

[Ali Ehsassi, Liberal, Willowdale, ON]

Did either of the other two witnesses want to add to that?

[Kourosh Doustshenas]

Well, history has shown all these 42 years that you can't negotiate and you can't expect any positive outcome with a country that has absolutely zero regard for human rights and international treaties, and basically violates every norm with impunity. Unfortunately, one of the biggest battles we had was to educate many people. When they promise you they're going to do something or they don't say no to you, it doesn't mean they're going to do something for you.

Early on, we spoke to the TSB and said, “Look, why don't you put further pressure on the investigative team, put more pressure, even through ICAO's annex 13?” They said, “Look, we are asking to get a higher designation. They haven't said no to us.” It's just like they're basically dangling this carrot in front of these officials. By just not saying no, you are almost hoping they are going to say yes, but that never happens. That never, ever has happened in 42 years of diplomacy with this country.

[The Chair, Liberal, Vance Badawey]

Mr. Alavi, would you comment?

[Amirali Alavi]

Thank you. I won't take more time on this question.

[The Chair, Liberal, Vance Badawey]

Thank you, Mr. Alavi, and thank you, gentlemen, and Mr. Ehsassi as well—those were great questions.

I'm going to move on to the Bloc. Mr. Barsalou-Duval, you have six minutes.

[Xavier Barsalou-Duval, Bloc, Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Before I ask my questions, I would like to take a moment to offer my condolences to the families of the victims of the PS752 tragedy.

As someone mentioned earlier, yes, it's hard to put ourselves in your shoes under these circumstances, but the loss of loved ones is a particularly difficult time in anyone's life. Everyone can agree that we are in solidarity with what you are going through. I really want you to know that my heart goes out to you at what is certainly a very difficult time for you.

What does the Association of Families of Flight PS752 Victims represent in your life? What is your involvement in the Association and how much time do you spend? Can you also tell us about the dynamics of the group?

[Kourosh Doustshenas]

Mr. Chair, if I may answer that one, this has basically become our full-time life. We do everything, from in the morning when we get up until the night when we sleep. We are doing everything to make sure that we push this forward a little more every day, to make sure to keep it alive, to make sure that people are not forgetting and to educate some people who don't know what happened.

In my responsibility as chair of the committee for government and stakeholder relations, myself, Amirali and Hamed have been meeting with every official you can imagine who has anything to do with this. We have met with ministers. We have met with the Prime Minister. We met recently with the commissioner of the RCMP. We have met with everyone you can even imagine who had anything to do with it in Canada and also around the world—in Sweden and also in the U.K. All of it, of course, was done this through meetings like this one.

Meanwhile, we are grieving, and we had to deal with the COVID-19 situation. We had to organize ourselves early on and basically put our grief in one corner and start to do this. No one should be put in a situation like that. The reason we had to do this.... We had to work as an advocacy group and basically work through all of this grieving [Technical difficulty—Editor]. The way this regime has been operating for the past 42 years, they are going to find a way to wriggle their way out of it. Unfortunately, so far, they have been able to not answer properly all the questions that have been posed to them, and there is no condemnation from anywhere.

What does it take for ICAO to come out and condemn Iran for breach of their own annex 13? They don't even respect their own annex 13, when a country doesn't even.... Basically, they are supposed to do that. What does it take to take this to them and put pressure on them?

You know what? This is surprising for us: Even our RCMP is having a hard time opening an investigation. We didn't say for you to take them to court. We said, “Look. Start the investigation to see if you can take them to international court or domestic court.”

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Vance Badawey]

Thank you, Mr. Doustshenas.

Mr. Barsalou-Duval, go ahead.

[Xavier Barsalou-Duval, Bloc, Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC]

I certainly have more questions to ask, but I was wondering whether the other witness wanted to add something.

[Dr. Hamed Esmaeilion]

This is a full-time job for me. I am a dentist; I was a dentist before this. My wife and I had a clinic in Aurora. I'm sitting in my office right now, but as you see, I have changed the office to an operation office for flight PS752. This is my new life, I think.

[The Chair, Liberal, Vance Badawey]

Mr. Alavi, do you have any comments?

[Amirali Alavi]

Yes, Mr. Chair. Thank you.

As with Mr. Doustshenas and Mr. Esmaeilion, for all of us in the association, our lives have changed. Within the association, we are in contact with the families of over 140 victims, and I can tell you that the Iranian regime not only took the lives of 176 victims; they took the lives of so many thousands of people—all the families who are now devastated, who feel oppressed, who feel helpless. That is the reason we keep going every day, with meetings and letters and appearing before you to answer questions.

Thank you.

[Xavier Barsalou-Duval, Bloc, Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC]

Thank you very much.