Transport Committee on June 15th, 2021

[Aaron McCrorie]

Again, I think in terms of the follow-up audit, I'd ask Mike to give an update on our work there, but as part of the commitment to continuous improvement, our priority now is addressing those recommendations.

[Michael DeJong]

I would point to a couple of areas. Notably, for example, the follow-up audit recommended that we undertake the [Technical difficulty--Editor] audits, and we're now gearing up to launch those audits in September 2021.

We're also taking a look at the positive impact that technology can have for railway safety in Canada, so we're looking at potentially assessing new technologies, such as the use of autonomous track inspection technology, remote equipment technology, that allows us to more accurately and safely detect issues or defects and then to mitigate them before they become issues.

[Helena Jaczek, Liberal, Markham—Stouffville, ON]

Do I have some time left?

[The Chair, Liberal, Vance Badawey]

You can squeeze one in, if you want.

[Helena Jaczek, Liberal, Markham—Stouffville, ON]

I think I'll cede my time. Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Vance Badawey]

Thank you, Ms. Jaczek, and the responders.

We're now going to move on to the Bloc Québécois, with Mr. Barsalou-Duval for two and a half minutes.

[Xavier Barsalou-Duval, Bloc, Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I would like to put a question to Mr. McCrorie.

I regularly hear municipal authorities complain about the lack of information on dangerous goods moving through their city. They are worried about their fire department's ability to respond in case of accident.

Are you planning to force railway companies, which seem to be closely guarding that information, to be more proactive in the disclosure of information?

[Aaron McCrorie]

I'll give a bit of a high-level overview, but I think my colleague Ben Turcotte can provide more details.

Protective direction 36 that we issued, I think in about 2015, requires railway companies to provide those municipalities or local authorities, including indigenous communities, information on the dangerous goods are running through their communities. They also have to provide information at a provincial level about what's being run on the rail lines.

Ben, maybe you could [Technical difficulty—Editor] information that has to be provided.

[Benoit Turcotte]

Yes, thank you.

Mr. Chair, protective direction 36 does, indeed, require our railway companies to share information on dangerous goods passing through communities. Communities must first register with CANUTEC, our 24-7 emergency response centre, which will facilitate that sharing of information.

Once that is done, the appropriate officials within each municipality will have ample information on dangerous goods passing through their communities, the type of dangerous goods, the volumes of those dangerous goods and whether those dangerous goods are being transported in unit trains, for example. That information is relayed directly to the municipal officials.

There is also a requirement in protective direction 36 to provide publicly available information. For example, the class 1 railways, CP and CN, have very detailed information on a provincial level on what is being transported through a particular province, the volumes, the type of dangerous goods and their percentage of the total volume of dangerous goods.

We think there's adequate information, and we always work with municipalities as well to help them understand that and to provide support and advice on planning for emergency response, should it be required.

[The Chair, Liberal, Vance Badawey]

Thank you, Mr. Turcotte, and Mr. Barsalou-Duval.

We're now going to move on to the NDP, with Mr. Bachrach for two and a half minutes.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'd like to pick up on the topic of emergency response.

Mr. McCrorie, you mentioned ERAPs, emergency response assistance plans, that the rail companies are required to have. One of the major concerns I hear from mayors and local governments is about whether there's the capacity to adequately protect their communities in the event of a major rail disaster involving dangerous goods.

Are those ERAPs available to the public?

[Aaron McCrorie]

I'm going to have to defer, Mr. Chair, to my colleague Ben Turcotte to address that question.

[Benoit Turcotte]

Indeed, an ERAP provides key resources, personnel and equipment to support first responders during an incident. Since the Lac-Mégantic tragedy, we've required railway companies or shippers of dangerous goods by rail to have in place ERAPs for about 11 or 12 different types of flammable liquids most commonly transported across railways.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Are those public documents?

[Benoit Turcotte]

They are not public documents. They are reviewed and approved by the transportation of dangerous goods program. There is a very careful vetting process, confirmation and a sort of audit of those plans.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

I'm going to have to move on to my next question because I only have two and a half minutes. It would seem reasonable that communities know what the plan is to respond to disasters.

Rail companies have told us they depend on local first responders. In our region, many of those first responders are volunteer fire departments. Rail companies depend on them to respond to incidents involving dangerous goods in their communities.

This is my question. Given that local governments support these small fire departments using property taxes, is it fair to give these volunteers this responsibility and expect them to protect a multi-billion-dollar company? Is that the right chain of responsibility? Rail companies have their own police departments. Why don't we require them to have their own fire departments as well, and have that capacity to respond to disasters in communities?

[The Chair, Liberal, Vance Badawey]

Mr. Turcotte or Mr. McCrorie.

[Aaron McCrorie]

Perhaps I could start, Mr. Chair, and then Ben might like to elaborate on some of the more particular emergency response measures we have in place.

Again, I'd like to emphasize the fact that we're in the business of building layers of protection, so our interest first and foremost is in trying to prevent accidents from happening. We have various measures in place, especially when moving dangerous goods, that require rail companies to do risk assessments of the trains they'll be running, to increase their track inspections and to use more robust tank cars, all with the goal of reducing the likelihood of that accident happening.

If that accident does happen, because they're at reduced speeds and because they've used more robust tank cars, they are less likely to have more tragic consequences.

In building those layers, the emergency response assistance plan also puts the onus on companies to have in place procedures so that they have the capacity to respond when necessary to accidents.

Ben, do you want to elaborate on some of the other measures we've put in place in terms of providing information to communities?

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Just to be clear, the question was whether or not it's fair to rely on volunteer fire departments to respond to rail disasters. That was the question. I didn't hear an answer. It's disappointing.

[The Chair, Liberal, Vance Badawey]

Thank you, Mr. McCrorie, Mr. Turcotte and Mr. Bachrach.

Mr. McCrorie and Mr. Turcotte, maybe you can slide a little bit of reference to that question into another answer from another member.

We're now going to move on to the Conservative Party, with Mr. Kram for five minutes.

[Michael Kram, Conservative, Regina—Wascana, SK]

Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you to the witnesses for joining us today.

My first question will be for Mr. Oommen of the Canadian Transportation Agency. It's my understanding that the agency keeps track of rail service performance data. As we all remember, last year, before the pandemic in this country, we had a lot of problems with protesters blockading and barricading railways. Does the agency have any performance data on the impact on rail service of last year's railway blockades?

[The Chair, Liberal, Vance Badawey]

Mr. McCrorie.

[Michael Kram, Conservative, Regina—Wascana, SK]

Actually, Mr. Chair, that was for Mr. Oommen.

[The Chair, Liberal, Vance Badawey]

Thank you, Mr. Kram.

Mr. Oommen, go ahead, please.

[Tom Oommen]

Chair, I don't think the agency has the type of performance data the member was asking for.