Transport Committee on Nov. 19th, 2020

[The Chair, Liberal, Vance Badawey]

I call this meeting to order.

Good afternoon, folks, and welcome to meeting number 5 of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Transport, Infrastructure and Communities.

Today's meeting is taking place in a hybrid format, pursuant to the House order of September 23. The proceedings will be made available via the House of Commons website. Just so that you are aware, the webcast will always show the person speaking, rather than the entire committee.

To ensure an orderly meeting, I would like to outline a few rules to follow.

Members and witnesses may speak in the official language of their choice. Interpretation services are available for this meeting. You have the choice, at the bottom of your screen, of either the floor, English or French.

For members participating in person, proceed as you usually would when the whole committee is meeting in person in a committee room. Keep in mind the directives from the Board of Internal Economy regarding masking and health protocols.

Before speaking, please wait until I recognize you by name. If you are on the video conference, please click on the microphone icon to unmute. Those in the room, your microphone will be controlled as normal by the proceedings and verification officer. As a reminder, all comments by members and witnesses should be addressed through the chair. When you are not speaking, your mike should be on mute.

With regard to a speaking list, the committee clerk and I will do the best we can to maintain the order of speaking for all members, whether they are participating virtually or in person.

Pursuant to Standing Order 81(4), the committee is commencing its study today on the main estimates 2020-21, as well as the supplementary estimates (B) 2020-21.

Now it's my pleasure to welcome our witnesses.

First off is the Honourable Catherine McKenna, Minister of Infrastructure and Communities, as well as Kelly Gillis, the deputy minister of infrastructure and communities.

Minister McKenna, once again, welcome, and the floor is yours.

[The Honourable Catherine McKenna, Liberal, Catherine McKenna]

Good afternoon.

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

I want to thank my team, including my deputy minister Kelly Gillis, and everyone who has been able to put this together virtually.

I am pleased to appear before the Standing Committee on Transport, Infrastructure and Communities to answer any questions on the 2020-21 main and supplementary estimates (B).

Without doubt, the COVID-19 pandemic continues to have a profound impact on our country, on our health and welfare, on our economy and on the work of the government. Many things have changed since the pandemic began. Although we have tailored our programs at Infrastructure Canada to better respond to it, our priorities and responsibilities remain the same and we are working very hard to achieve results for Canadians.

The supplementary estimates (B) for the 2020-21 fiscal year include items that required adjustments for a variety of reasons, and we are seeking a net increase of $52.9 million.

For example, in response to the COVID-19 pandemic, we launched the new Canada healthy communities initiative to support community-driven solutions that improve quality of life. To accomplish this, we are seeking $4.9 million of unused 2019-20 funds from the smart cities challenge program for this new initiative. Canadians are adapting to the realities of COVID-19, and this program will help us keep people safe and healthy, support economic recovery and build pandemic-resilient communities.

For the Samuel De Champlain Bridge Corridor project, we’re seeking $48.3 million of unused funds from 2019-2020 to be used for 2020-2021. We are also seeking to transfer $310,000 to the Social Sciences and Humanities Research Council to support mobility and public transportation.

All of this work supports our long-term infrastructure plan for stronger, more inclusive communities and lasting economic, environmental and social benefits for years to come. These are the same objectives as those of our historic Investing in Canada plan.

This plan will be key to getting out of this economic crisis, ensuring our long-term prosperity, and to building a cleaner and more resilient future for all Canadians, who are the foundation of our departmental plan.

Since March 1, under the largest program led by my department, the investing in canada infrastructure program, we've approved over 700 projects representing a federal investment of over $1.2 billion. This contributes to good jobs across the country from planning to design to construction to businesses all along the supply chain.

We also launched a new COVID-19 stream within that program. These projects will benefit from an increased 80% federal cost-share in the provinces, and a 100% cost-share for indigenous projects and projects in the territories. These are projects like upgrading schools or long-term care homes with things like HVAC and physical distancing measures, or building new parks, and cycling and walking paths to help Canadians get outside and stay active.

We're also pleased to see the Canada Infrastructure Bank hitting its stride under new board chair, Michael Sabia, and new CEO, Ehren Cory, with projects like the $815 million irrigation plan for southern Alberta as part of the bank's three-year $10 billion growth plan.

However, it's not enough for governments to simply shovel out infrastructure dollars. It's about the outcomes Canadians get in return. Every taxpayer dollar that is spent will do triple duty creating jobs and economic growth, making communities cleaner and more resilient—meeting our goal of net zero by 2050—and making communities inclusive, so that everyone has a fair shot to succeed.

Every taxpayer dollar that is spent will do triple duty—creating jobs and economic growth, making communities cleaner and more resilient in order to achieve our objective of net-zero emissions by 2050, and making communities inclusive so that everyone has a fair shot to succeed.

In the Speech from the Throne on September 23, we set out our government's ambition to create a million jobs as we recover from the economic shock of the pandemic. Investments in infrastructure are key to that ambition.

We are contributing to our country’s recovery by helping communities get back on their feet, supporting them to get more infrastructure built, creating jobs and building a stronger, cleaner, healthier and more connected country.

Thank you for your attention. I look forward to answering your questions.

[The Chair, Liberal, Vance Badawey]

Thank you, Madam Minister.

We will now go to the speaking order. We will start with the Conservative party.

Mr. Scheer.

[Andrew Scheer, Conservative, Regina—Qu'Appelle, SK]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Welcome, Minister. I don't know what the weather is like in Ottawa, but I hope you're doing well.

I'm glad you referenced the Canada Infrastructure Bank because I had a few questions on that. You used the term “hitting its stride”. Many people would call the Canada Infrastructure Bank “stumbling out of the gates”. It has been around for almost four years now. It has been allocated $35 billion.

Can you tell us what the operating costs are for the Canada Infrastructure Bank on a yearly basis?

[Catherine McKenna, Liberal, Ottawa Centre, ON]

I would like to welcome the member from Regina—Qu'Appelle. It's great to see him as the new critic for infrastructures and communities. I certainly think it reflects the importance your party puts on infrastructure that you're in this position.

The weather here is not amazing, but it's not terrible. We announced our net zero legislation today, so that was good. I was outside.

With regard to the Canada Infrastructure Bank, I think it plays an extremely important role. I would hope that the Conservative party would agree with that because we need more infrastructure built, and we need to bring in the private sector to do that.

I am happy to get back to him with the answer. The Canada Infrastructure Bank is an independent organization, and we're happy to follow up with the answer to his question.

[Andrew Scheer, Conservative, Regina—Qu'Appelle, SK]

Thank you very much, Minister. This is our first time participating in a parliamentary format like this, so I appreciate your acknowledging that.

You talked about the need for more infrastructure. I'm puzzled why you're using the Canada Infrastructure Bank as an example of getting more infrastructure.

Perhaps you could tell this committee something that the Prime Minister did not want to say, which is to answer a very simple question. How many projects has the Infrastructure Bank completed in its almost four years of existence and $35 billion allocation of taxpayers' money?

[Catherine McKenna, Liberal, Ottawa Centre, ON]

I would like to thank the member for the question.

As I say, the Canada Infrastructure Bank is now hitting its stride. It is moving forward in a whole range of projects.

Probably the best one is the REM project in Montreal. That's an extremely popular project. I'd be happy to accompany the member opposite, when circumstances allow, to view the REM. It's creating thousands of jobs. It's also going to help grow the economy there.

I also would point to an announcement that was just made with the Government of Alberta. It's a new MOU with the Conservative government that recognizes the importance of bringing in the bank and the private sector. This is something that I'm sure the member opposite would appreciate, because it's also very important to his province. It's modernizing irrigation district infrastructure and increasing water storage capacity. This is going to result in an $850 million investment, creating 6,800 direct and indirect permanent jobs.

[Andrew Scheer, Conservative, Regina—Qu'Appelle, SK]

You've referenced two projects, one that which you've signed a memorandum of understanding for.

The question was, however, that you've had almost four years with this institution. This bank announced with great fanfare. It was going to be your government's signature vehicle to do infrastructure differently. It was supposed to lead to dozens and dozens of private sector funds investing in these types of projects.

Here we are, almost four years out, with $35 billion and millions of dollars' worth of operating costs. You must have completed something. Can you just tell this committee how many projects have been finished? Not memorandums of understanding or work under way, but how many projects have been completed?

[Catherine McKenna, Liberal, Ottawa Centre, ON]

As the member opposite would know, it actually takes some time. I know that everyone at the REM project is working extremely hard. They would love to see it completed, but it doesn't work like that.

Some of the other engagements are the Contrecoeur Port de Montreal, District Energy in Richmond, B.C., and hydroelectricity in the Northwest Territories.

Maybe I'll just go to the Conservative Party's platform because I'm trying to understand.... We do want to get more infrastructure built. That's why we're investing, for example, 13 times the amount of the Conservative Party said it would in infrastructure. You were part of the party that wanted to kill $18 billion in the infrastructure budget. I'm just wondering if that is still your party's position.

What projects, in your riding, would you want to kill? We have the Town of Ituna water distribution and supply, new water and waste water, lagoon expansion and new lift station, and drinking water treatments systems. I would say that those are very important infrastructure investments.

It's not just the bank. It's what our government is doing, working with the provinces, territories and municipalities.

[Andrew Scheer, Conservative, Regina—Qu'Appelle, SK]

With all due respect, Minister, you referenced the Infrastructure Bank. I'm just trying to get an understanding, after it has been being allocated $35 billion. I'm assuming the answer is zero. I don't know why, if the answer is zero, you can't just say “zero”.

As you know, our P3 model and infrastructure programs during our previous Conservative government got the job done. We built massive projects all across the country, and it was our commitment in the campaign to actually get things done.

We've heard from stakeholders across the country who are saying dollars aren't flowing. We've heard from ministers in provincial governments who are saying there are projects submitted that are waiting for federal approval. We could be getting more projects built, but there's a massive problem within the department of actually getting those projects out the door.

I want to go back to the announcement with the Canada Infrastructure Bank. Mr. Sabia said, during that press conference, that “hope isn't a plan” and that the plan that you, Mr. Sabia, and the Prime Minister announced was the result of “a serious analysis of current and potential projects. In short, this plan is real.” Minister, have you seen the plan?

[Catherine McKenna, Liberal, Ottawa Centre, ON]

Yes, actually, the plan is public. I'm happy to share the growth plan. It's a $10 billion, three-year plan that the Canada Infrastructure Bank has announced. I think it's really important. I totally agree with the member opposite about how important it is to get projects approved. We're in an economic crisis as well as a health crisis.

In fact, I have to give my department kudos, because since the pandemic started, we've approved more than 700 projects worth over $1.3 billion.

I would come back to the fact that.... Just take infrastructure and investments in public transit, where we've invested 13 times what the previous government did, and that's actually creating jobs—

[Andrew Scheer, Conservative, Regina—Qu'Appelle, SK]

That is not true.

[Catherine McKenna, Liberal, Ottawa Centre, ON]

—across the country. I'm happy to share the information with the member opposite.

[Andrew Scheer, Conservative, Regina—Qu'Appelle, SK]

That's not true

[The Chair, Liberal, Vance Badawey]

Thank you, Minister, and thank you, Mr. Scheer.

I will now go on to Mr. Sidhu. The floor is yours.

[Maninder Sidhu, Liberal, Brampton East, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you to Minister McKenna, Deputy Minister Gillis and the whole team for being with us today.

I will be splitting my time with my colleague Mr. Rogers.

Minister, this week we welcomed you virtually to Brampton to make an announcement on Brampton's Riverwalk project, which will help unlock economic value in our city.

Minister, climate change is real and the impacts can be seen across the country, including here in Brampton. Can you speak more on this project and other actions you are taking to enhance community resilience?

[Catherine McKenna, Liberal, Ottawa Centre, ON]

Thank you very much. That was a really great project, and it's a partnership of the federal government directly with the municipality. I think it was great that we were able to make such a big investment, but let's talk about that project. I like talking about real things.

It's not just investments of money. It's investments in people and the economy. I have had the chance to go to Brampton, and this is going to make a huge difference in dealing with flooding that we've seen there, which impacted thousands of residents. But it also means that you can actually build more businesses and more housing there.

So this is an extremely important investment that is going to make a real difference. That was $38 million and it was going to create, I think Mayor Brown said, over 50,000 jobs, good jobs that we need right now. Our disaster mitigation and adaptation fund has supported 59 projects across the country providing $1.7 billion towards these projects. The reality is, as you've said, that climate change is real and is having a real impact that's imposing serious costs on Canadians. We need to be making our communities more resilient to deal with the impacts of extreme weather and with the realities of climate change, and we're going to continue to do that.

I could list a whole range of projects that have made a big difference that I've been able to witness in communities, where people are so happy that we're taking their concerns seriously.

Flooding has a real impact on people. It has an impact on their health. It has an impact on their communities. And we can be more resilient and, of course, build a cleaner future.

[The Chair, Liberal, Vance Badawey]

Thank you, Minister.

Mr. Sidhu.

[Maninder Sidhu, Liberal, Brampton East, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you, Minister.

We are very excited about this project. It's going to help the residents of Brampton so much. I'd like to pass it over to Mr. Rogers here.

[Churence Rogers, Liberal, Bonavista—Burin—Trinity, NL]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Welcome, Minister. It's good to see you, and welcome as well to your officials.

Minister, I know we've been introducing all kinds of programs to try to combat climate change and we know that Canadians are keenly interested in greener transit fleets. Can you give us an idea and some updates about the kinds of initiatives that the government is taking to support the electrification of transit systems?

[Catherine McKenna, Liberal, Ottawa Centre, ON]

That's a really great question, so thank you very much to the member for the question.

Look, we know that climate change is real, that emissions from the transportation sector are a significant portion of our emissions, and we have an opportunity to do a lot better by making investments in electric vehicles and, more broadly, in public transit. It's really amazing because there's another benefit to that, which is that it's a Canadian supply chain. If you look at where electric buses are made, there's New Flyer in Winnipeg, Manitoba, and Nova Bus and Lion Electric in Quebec. There are really great opportunities to be creating jobs while we do this, and I've made a number of investments across the country in electric buses. We made a commitment of 5,000 electric buses. We were just talking about the Canada Infrastructure Bank. Part of their growth plan is investing in electric buses with us so that we can get more buses electrified, and that's a huge priority. I've really seen that across the country, including in your own province.

[Churence Rogers, Liberal, Bonavista—Burin—Trinity, NL]

I have a quick question about universal broadband fund. Here in Atlantic Canada we were excited by the announcement of the universal broadband fund, especially in our small rural communities, which depend on the Internet to stay in touch with loved ones, to access government programs and just to stay informed.

I'm wondering if you could elaborate a little bit on the physical infrastructure that will be built in Atlantic Canada and the kinds of jobs that that might create.

[Catherine McKenna, Liberal, Ottawa Centre, ON]

The investments in broadband are really critically important. I've heard from so many people across the country about how the pandemic has really demonstrated how challenging it is, that not having access to broadband is not just a productivity issue, but an equity issue. It means that you can't home-school your kids. You can't run your business online. It means increasingly that you can't access your medical services. So it's a huge impediment.

We announced recently the universal broadband fund with $1.5 billion. Once again the Canada Infrastructure Bank is also looking at how it can be a partner and expand that, because we have an opportunity to get broadband built, and in your community, it's our goal.... The Prime Minister has accelerated the goal. Our goal is that 98% of Canadians be connected by 2026, but my focus is on how the Canada Infrastructure Bank can move ahead as quickly as possible to connect as many people as possible.

[The Chair, Liberal, Vance Badawey]

Mr. Rogers, do you have a quick question?

[Churence Rogers, Liberal, Bonavista—Burin—Trinity, NL]

No, Mr. Chair, that's the final question from me. Thank you very much.

Minister, thanks for these answers.