Transport Committee on Dec. 3rd, 2020

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

The ACAP dollars, if I understand correctly, are 90% funded by the federal government, and the airports have to kick in another 10%. Is it challenging for small communities and municipalities to come up with that 10% through revenue tools like property tax?

[Brian Grant]

Actually, the airports capital assistance program funding is on a sliding scale, so the more passengers you move, the less the contribution the federal government gives you. Even for those that are 100% funded, with small passenger movements, the application process to get a project approved costs money. It costs those airports and communities money to have predesign studies done so they can identify that they have a plan and project that needs to be done. Many of those airports—Smithers airport is a prime example that I have talked to lately—simply do not invest in getting an application ready, because it's $25,000 or $30,000 out of their pockets with no guarantees for five years.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Is it fair to say that the reason you're advocating for the funding to be 100% during the pandemic is to help those small airports get the funding they need for capital upgrades and safety upgrades and those sorts of things?

[Brian Grant]

Absolutely, and I can speak to personal experience in my home airport. We have lost 90% of our traffic movement and 75% of our revenues. We're at a 25% and 30% contribution rate from the federal government.

I agree 100%. They can add all the money they like to the program, but if it's not 100% funded, we can't access it.

We are advocating, and have been for a number of years, for changing the requirements around application processes so that it's not just about money; it's about the ability to access the money.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

This is my last question.

Nav Canada announced it's cutting air traffic services at seven regional airports. What will the impact of this be, and is this a safety concern?

[Brian Grant]

For some airports and some communities it certainly is a safety concern. For others it's not as much a safety concern as having the appropriate tools and technology when that service leaves. There is no avenue to fund that at this point, even through the ACAP program.

Automated weather stations and automated lighting controls.... It's important that we have the ability to fund those before anything is decided by way of removing service, and that is a serious safety issue.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Grant.

[The Chair, Liberal, Vance Badawey]

Thank you, Mr. Grant and Mr. Bachrach. Those were great questions.

We are now going to move to our second round. For five minutes each, we will have Mr. Kram from the Conservatives and Mr. Sidhu from the Liberals, and two and a half minutes will go to Mr. Barsalou-Duval from the Bloc Québécois and Mr. Bachrach from the NDP.

Mr. Kram, you have the floor for five minutes.

[Michael Kram, Conservative, Regina—Wascana, SK]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

My questions are for the witnesses from the Canadian Airports Council and the Regional Community Airports of Canada.

For the past eight months, the government has been talking at a high level about its plan to save Canada's airports from bankruptcy. Then on Monday Minister Freeland delivered her fall economic statement, which included a section about supports for the air sector. This section describes funding for health and safety infrastructure and for transit infrastructure, and the waiving or deferring of lease payments for the next few years.

Do you feel that the government's plan to save Canada's airports from bankruptcy meets your needs, and if not, why not?

[Daniel-Robert Gooch]

The $500 million you describe certainly will be very helpful. We've recommended that. In fact, we recommended most of what was in there; it was just not at a level sufficient for our nation's airports to avoid really serious challenges next year.

That money will be very valuable. Certainly there is a big project in Montreal, but the price tag for that project is $600 million. An additional $225 million in runway investments will need to be made to add runway and safety areas. It's a federal regulation that's coming into play, so airports are installing things and making investments into accessibility upgrades because of regulations that are coming into place. Our members do not oppose these regulations, but they do wonder how they're going to be able to pay for them.

In terms of the rent relief, we've been saying for quite some time that there really does need to be an actual waiver of rent and that it needs to be for multiple years if it's to have a meaningful impact. Even with that, for the 14 smallest airports, including the one in Regina in your community, a waiver on rent when rent is a revenue charge and you're only bringing in a fraction of what you were making is not as valuable as it would be in year two, year three, or year four, when traffic is actually starting to recover and those volumes and those revenues that come with it are starting to recover. As a result, airports are taking on $2.8 billion in debt that needs to be repaid.

The situation is bizarre. If the government were to give an airport $10 million, that would be $10 million in revenue that it would not need to raise in another way. If the airport didn't get that and it had to borrow that money, it would have to pay back interest on that. Actually the federal government makes more money when the airport doesn't have relief and has to borrow, because for every dollar that the airport has to generate to pay back the debt, it's also paying back interest, and the federal government gets a cut on every one of those dollars. The situation is very difficult, and it's not sustainable, certainly, without additional support for airports.

[The Chair, Liberal, Vance Badawey]

Mr. Kram is next.

[Michael Kram, Conservative, Regina—Wascana, SK]

Thank you.

I should follow up on a question my colleague Mr. Bachrach asked.

Last week various news outlets reported that Nav Canada was planning to shut down the air traffic control towers at the airports in, I believe, Whitehorse, Prince George, Fort McMurray, Regina, Sault Ste. Marie, Windsor and St. Jean, Quebec.

Could the witnesses representing the airports give us an idea of what it means for the airports' capacity to attract new flights and new carriers when the airport does not have an air traffic control tower?

Can the other witnesses representing the airlines give us an idea of what it means to the airlines that want to increase services to an airport when that airport does not have an air traffic control tower?

[Daniel-Robert Gooch]

Brian, do you want to take that one first?

[Brian Grant]

I think from the perspective of our members in regional and community airports, air traffic control towers certainly have not been the catalyst as to whether or not we receive service. Those areas at this time are just simply trying to get by and to ensure that they can keep the peace to keep those airlines flying in.

I think that's a better question for the carriers, especially, to identify how they work with those situations.

[The Chair, Liberal, Vance Badawey]

You have one minute.

[Michael Kram, Conservative, Regina—Wascana, SK]

I'm sorry, Chair, but do I have the floor again?

[The Chair, Liberal, Vance Badawey]

You do. You have one minute, Mr. Kram.

[Michael Kram, Conservative, Regina—Wascana, SK]

Then I would like to hear an answer to my previous question from the witnesses representing the airlines.

As we come out of the pandemic, if an airport does not have an air traffic control tower, how does that impact the airline's ability to increase flights to the airport?

[Mike McNaney]

I'll answer quickly and then turn it over to my colleague John.

Our principal concern about anything with respect to ATC, air traffic control, and navigation is with respect to safety and safety of operations.

You do absolutely look at the coverage you're going to get and the times of day you'll get coverage and whether your alternates will actually be covered in order to fly service, so it can have a commercial implication, but ultimately you're most focused on safety and the provision of safety services. I think that comes back to my earlier comments about Nav Canada needing support.

[The Chair, Liberal, Vance Badawey]

Thank you, Mr. McNaney. Thank you, Mr. Kram.

We now move to Mr. Sidhu for five minutes. Mr. Sidhu, the floor is yours.

[Maninder Sidhu, Liberal, Brampton East, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you to all of the witnesses for being with us today.

My question is for Mr. McKenna and Mr. Gooch.

What lessons do you think should be drawn from the EU experience of relaxing travel quarantines only to have to reimpose them when the second wave hit?

Mr. McKenna, you can start.

[John McKenna]

The only answer I can see to that is that you can't continuously do that. Obviously if you're going to relax measures, it's because you have measures in place that allow you to do that regardless of what happens. I think we have to avoid that at all costs.

[Maninder Sidhu, Liberal, Brampton East, ON]

Mr. Gooch, can I get your thoughts on that as well?

[Daniel-Robert Gooch]

I can't really speak to the individual measures that might have been put in place in different European places and whether they were effective. I do know that what we have been calling for is rapid antigen testing before people get onto flights so that travellers can have that additional degree of confidence.

What we have seen from the studies that have taken place so far is that there are a very small number of travellers who have been testing positive, less than 1%. What we have now is testing on international arrivals. It would be even better to have it prior to departure.

There are many different ways to design that. Obviously the best way would be to have a very accurate predeparture antigen test. There are other places that have combined a test several days prior to departure with a rapid test at the airport. There are different ways of doing it.

[Maninder Sidhu, Liberal, Brampton East, ON]

Thank you for that.

Mr. Chair, how much time do I have left?