Transport Committee on Dec. 3rd, 2020

[Stephanie Kusie, Conservative, Calgary Midnapore, AB]

I want to go back to something you talked about, Mr. McNaney, and that is the long-term impact of the lack of government assistance for your members. Can you expand upon that, please? What do you suspect the long-term impacts will be regarding this government's inaction?

[Mike McNaney]

We are starting to see the impacts now. It is unnerving for us from a commercial perspective, and it should be unnerving for us broadly from an economic recovery perspective as well. As I mentioned in my opening comments, we are seeing that foreign carriers have started to receive support from their governments, and they started to receive it around May and June. They have now started to take a greater share of international markets from Canadian carriers.

My members spent years, as I said, and billions of dollars building up that network connectivity and that international competitiveness. We have a very small domestic market in Canada. We need every internationally successful company we can get our hands on, regardless of the sector.

We are seeing our competitiveness internationally being eroded. What you will also see—and this has been discussed by others earlier— is that internal domestic connectivity and the ability to support our overall economy and move forward in the recovery are absolutely also going to be undermined. We will not be able to turn on a dime to bring back all this capacity, the billions of dollars' worth of aircraft and the tens of thousands of employees. It's going to take us quite some time to do that. That's why it has been so critical that these other jurisdictions have provided this interim financial support so that the aviation sector can stabilize itself and then get ready for that future development and future competitiveness that obviously we're all hoping occurs as we get to the other side of the pandemic.

[Stephanie Kusie, Conservative, Calgary Midnapore, AB]

Thank you, Mr. McNaney.

Mr. Gooch, in your opinion, is it feasible to implement rapid testing before departure for domestic flights at our other large airports across the country, with the right supports?

[Daniel-Robert Gooch]

Thank you, Ms. Kusie. It's good to see you again. Thank you for all your support.

[Stephanie Kusie, Conservative, Calgary Midnapore, AB]

It's nice to see you.

[Daniel-Robert Gooch]

We are looking to see rapid antigen testing expanded to more airports. I know our member airports are working with provincial health authorities and the federal government to make that happen as quickly as we can. We're really focused on international air travel primarily, but of course there are some parts of the country where domestic travel is really quite suppressed, even more than the average at this point—in Manitoba and Atlantic Canada, for example. At least in Atlantic Canada, our members are urgently calling for rapid testing to be introduced into those airports so that we can make travellers even safer than they already are and provide greater confidence to travellers on the safety of air travel.

We have a few short months to get this in place if we are going to have it in place in time for the summer season. We believe other countries in the northern hemisphere are going to start to see a recovery in travel and tourism in the summer, and we're not sure yet if Canada's going to be able to participate in it.

[Stephanie Kusie, Conservative, Calgary Midnapore, AB]

Mr. Gooch, in your opinion, is it feasible to implement a pilot project at all the large airports for international arrivals like the one at YYC?

[Daniel-Robert Gooch]

There is a great appetite to expand what we've seen in Calgary to other parts of the country. Certainly, our airports and our air carrier partners are ready, willing and able to help.

[The Chair, Liberal, Vance Badawey]

Thank you, Mr. Gooch. Thank you, Mrs. Kusie.

We will go on to Mr. Bittle for six minutes.

[Chris Bittle, Liberal, St. Catharines, ON]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

For the National Airlines Council, I understand that the airlines and your members are seeking billions of dollars of taxpayer assistance to deal with this crisis. At the same time, I've read some media reports that some of your members are reluctant to open their books. Is that true?

[Mike McNaney]

Mr. Chair, I think that's to me.

I haven't seen those same media reports. I know that the government has said, and repeated a couple of days ago, that it is beginning confidential conversations because of the nature of the discussions and the commercial activity that they'll have to get into. I fully assume that it's going to proceed on the pace and tone that the government wishes to do so, and—

[Chris Bittle, Liberal, St. Catharines, ON]

Would you agree, then, that it's reasonable that if Canadian taxpayers are going to provide billions of dollars on a confidential basis, Transport Canada should be able to access those books and that the Government of Canada should have access to them?

[Mike McNaney]

I think it's reasonable that the government and the individual companies will confidentially discuss all the details that they need to discuss in order to ultimately get to a conclusion that hopefully provides support for aviation and the thousands of people who have lost their jobs.

[Chris Bittle, Liberal, St. Catharines, ON]

Excuse me. That's really wasn't an answer. Is it reasonable or unreasonable?

[Mike McNaney]

It is absolutely reasonable for both parties to be able to have a deep conversation about what is needed. I haven't seen those media reports, sir, so I'm afraid I can't speak to those directly.

[Chris Bittle, Liberal, St. Catharines, ON]

Even as a taxpayer, would it be reasonable to assume that books be opened if an industry is looking for a significant aid package from the government? I'm surprised it is taking this many questions to get to something I thought would be an easy “Yes”.

[Mike McNaney]

I think we're generally saying the same thing. We might just be putting the emphasis on a different syllable. I think it's perfectly legitimate for the government to be looking for the information it needs to provide for the loans that are necessary, yes.

[Chris Bittle, Liberal, St. Catharines, ON]

Thank you.

I think it's disappointing that you're evading the question on whether the major airlines should be opening up their books and sharing that information. It seems like there's a willingness to just demand a blank cheque, but maybe I'll move on to the next point.

Do you think that any financial assistance should be tied with restrictions on executive compensation?

[Mike McNaney]

I think the government is going to have the opportunity to put in place whatever conditions it deems fit. I'm in an awkward position in that we are talking about the scope of support, which is not defined, and what that might be.

In terms of loans and loan guarantees, as I said, yes, the government should be able to access the information it needs to determine that those loans and loan guarantees are necessary, whatever that might entail. In terms of the conditions that the government wishes to put upon it, that will be the government's decision, and then it will be up to each company to decide how it wishes to proceed.

[Chris Bittle, Liberal, St. Catharines, ON]

Then would you agree that it would be within reason to make conditions on maintaining staffing levels or to honour contracts with Canadian aerospace firms?

[Mike McNaney]

You're asking me to comment on conditions for something that does not yet exist. It's a bit like asking me to comment on conditions for the sale of a house that hasn't been built and the plans for which I have not seen.

I think it is absolutely legitimate for the government to conclude whichever questions and whatever information it believes it needs to determine the path forward, whatever those conditions might be. Then companies will have to decide how they proceed with it.

In a broad sense, yes to the various points you're making, but I'm not familiar with the particular individual stories you're referencing.

[Chris Bittle, Liberal, St. Catharines, ON]

Okay.

[The Chair, Liberal, Vance Badawey]

You have two minutes, Mr. Bittle.

[Chris Bittle, Liberal, St. Catharines, ON]

Thank you.

You seem to suggest that there's been no support. I'm wondering if you could tell me—if you have that information at your fingertips, and if not, maybe you can provide it later—how much your members have received from the government with respect to the wage subsidy.

[Mike McNaney]

Sure.

Just to be clear, I didn't say there was no support. I actually said in my comments that support has been provided and that further support was announced a couple of days ago. Our principal point is that it is not in line with what we're going to need to actually have the recovery that we hope to have and to bring back the tens of thousands of jobs that have been lost.

The members have availed themselves of CEWS and have publicly stated their thanks for that. We're not diminishing that contribution. Our point is that there is going to be a great deal more that's required to be done, and that is based on what we were seeing in other countries as they move forward to stabilize the sector and prepare for the overall economic recovery.