Evidence of meeting #114 for Transport, Infrastructure and Communities in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was bureau.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Peter Schiefke
Thank you, Mr. Fillmore.
Mr. Barsalou‑Duval, you have the floor for six minutes.
Bloc
Xavier Barsalou-Duval Bloc Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I'd like to thank the witnesses for being with us today. I greatly appreciated their opening remarks, and I look forward to learning more about this, particularly the six recommendations proposed by the representatives of the Public Interest Advocacy Centre. That was music to my ears, and I hope the committee will unanimously agree with the recommendations.
Mr. Lawford, I want to have a closer look at some of your recommendations. There's one that talks about access to boarding gates and time slots for new entrants to the air travel sector.
What mechanism do you think would resolve this issue? Should it be mandatory? You may have mentioned it in your opening remarks, but I didn't quite understand what you said.
I said earlier that the Competition Bureau could make it mandatory. Something like this could perhaps be automated at airports.
Are there other more appropriate mechanisms for doing that?
Executive Director and General Counsel, Public Interest Advocacy Centre
There are a number of mechanisms in place at airports, as well as at Transport Canada and within the airlines.
How the slots are allocated, I believe, is mostly right now a matter of negotiation between the airports and the airlines. The minister, with Bill C-52, is only going to get the power to ask what's going on. Involving Transport Canada more in that negotiation would probably assist.
A rationalization of where competition law can say something about those arrangements is going to help. I see the Competition Bureau taking baby steps towards inserting itself in the airline industry's regulation from a competition point of view, and, hopefully, it will eventually be four parties talking about such things as slots.
However, for the moment it's really only two. Because it's a dominant carrier and an established airline, as I said, it goes on the “use it or lose it” rule. If Air Canada wants it back, and it has been using it, it gets it back.
Bloc
Xavier Barsalou-Duval Bloc Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC
That brings me to the point I wanted to make.
Right now, the airports decide who gets time slots and boarding gates.
If I understand correctly, it's on a first-come, first-served basis. In other words, as long as a carrier is there and takes the spot, they get to keep it. The problem is, if a carrier is already occupying 60% or 70% of the space and says they want the next available space, it's hard to deny them if they are a big customer.
Executive Director and General Counsel, Public Interest Advocacy Centre
If we want to have a new carrier, why not put aside 10% of the boarding gates every year for new entrants?
Bloc
Xavier Barsalou-Duval Bloc Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC
Thank you for your answers.
Like a number of other witnesses, you also mentioned that the government had approved almost all proposed mergers and acquisitions.
You're suggesting that mergers and acquisitions now be dealt with at arm's length from the government. The Competition Bureau's decision would therefore be final, and there would be no recourse.
Would there be recourse in exceptional circumstances?
Executive Director and General Counsel, Public Interest Advocacy Centre
It's still possible to appeal the tribunal's decision to the Federal Court of Appeal. This recourse will be in place for people who don't agree with the decision. Actually, we're trying to take this power away from the minister.
Bloc
Xavier Barsalou-Duval Bloc Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC
The minister's power doesn't seem to have served Canadians well, at least if we look at recent history.
Executive Director and General Counsel, Public Interest Advocacy Centre
That's not yet been the case, no.
Bloc
Xavier Barsalou-Duval Bloc Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC
In any event, the minister doesn't seem to have wielded his power.
How much time do I have left, Mr. Chair?
Bloc
Xavier Barsalou-Duval Bloc Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC
I will now turn to another witness, Mr. Prentice.
Mr. Prentice, I don't know if you've been following the committee's proceedings, but at our last meeting, Gábor Lukács, the president of Air Passenger Rights, told us that it would be worthwhile to have a more robust data collection system, similar to that of the United States, to give us more information and better inform decision makers and legislators.
I'd like to know if you agree with that and if it's a good way to do things.
Professor, Transport Institute, University of Manitoba, As an Individual
I'm sorry. I'm not receiving the simultaneous translation, so I can't answer your question.
Bloc
Xavier Barsalou-Duval Bloc Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC
In that case, perhaps I could ask Mr. Lawford the question to save some time.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Peter Schiefke
Just a moment, Mr. Barsalou‑Duval. We're going to check whether it's working well or whether it's because of a delay.
Mr. Prentice, are you able to hear me when I'm speaking in French with the translation?
Professor, Transport Institute, University of Manitoba, As an Individual
I can hear you now in English but not in French.
Liberal
Professor, Transport Institute, University of Manitoba, As an Individual
I'm just hearing the French. I'm not hearing the translation.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Peter Schiefke
We're going to stop the clock, Dr. Prentice. We're just going to make sure that we can get translation for Mr. Barsalou-Duval.
I just spoke with the clerk. We're going to suspend for two minutes to rectify the situation, and then we'll come right back. The meeting is suspended.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Peter Schiefke
I call this meeting back to order. According to the clerk, we have rectified the audiovisual translation issues, so we'll continue with our line of questioning.
Once again, I am turning over the floor to Mr. Barsalou‑Duval.
Mr. Barsalou‑Duval, you have one and a half minutes left.
Bloc
Xavier Barsalou-Duval Bloc Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Mr. Prentice, at the last committee meeting, we heard from Gábor Lukács of Air Passenger Rights. One of his recommendations was that the federal government implement a more robust data collection system on what is happening in the air travel sector, a system similar to what's done in the United States. Enhanced data collection could inform decision makers on the state of competition.
Do you think this data could be useful to everyone?
Professor, Transport Institute, University of Manitoba, As an Individual
I'm always in favour of more information. I think it helps consumers make more decisions. The only thing that sometimes holds it up is the issue of whether it is divulging competitive issues between the airlines themselves, but I don't see how that would be a problem here.
Bloc
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Peter Schiefke
Next we have Mr. Bachrach.
Mr. Bachrach, the floor is yours. You have six minutes, please.
