Transport Committee on Oct. 3rd, 2024

[Xavier Barsalou-Duval, Bloc, Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC]

I, myself, have asked all the questions I had, but I'm not sure whether Mr. Bachrach was able to ask all of his questions.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Great.

Thank you, Mr. Barsalou‑Duval.

Mr. Bachrach, would you like additional time?

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

It's hard to say. Once I start talking, Mr. Chair, I could go on for quite a while.

[An hon. member]

Never mind.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

It's a dangerous proposition, Mr. Bachrach.

If you need additional time, just give me the signal and we'll be glad to give that to you.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Okay. Thanks.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Thank you, sir.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Thanks, Mr. Chair.

Thanks again to our witnesses.

I have a couple more questions. One is related to the 2022 incident that Mr. Barsalou-Duval referenced in his last question.

This question is for Ms. Murray. I'm curious to know whether Unifor was engaged substantively in the aftermath of that incident and whether your employees were part of providing input that could inform the government's response. I understand that the minister required certain changes, and Via made certain changes based on those requirements and its own assessment of the incident.

Was Unifor engaged in that work?

[Jennifer Murray]

It wasn't, to my knowledge.

Obviously, I would have just been starting in this role. To my knowledge, Mr. Bachrach, Unifor wasn't engaged. Perhaps it was engaged at the local level, but certainly not at higher levels within the union.

Joel, if I'm mistaken, you can certainly jump in and correct me here.

[Joel Kennedy]

No, we were not consulted.

Generally, in our history, we haven't been consulted unless the companies were compelled to consult us. There's no voluntary consultation when it comes to these types of situations.

This leads me back to my previous comment to you. As stakeholders, we need to be part of this process. It's important. We bring valuable information up from the ranks. We have access to it through our health and safety committees when we're consulted. The problem is that there's nothing compelling these companies to consult with the union. That's problematic for us.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

I'll shift gears a little.

There are points being made about how Via Rail could have been better prepared for this kind of incident.

My question is this: Given the constraints, which they couldn't change in the moment.... Based on the provisions available and the circumstances as you understand them, did Via Rail's personnel do the best they could, given the limitations? Do you feel the company should have responded differently, even given the constraints?

[Joel Kennedy]

I will say that staff on those trains are trained only for limited times, situations and scenarios. We can talk about a two- or three-hour delay, which should be on the high end of things. That's what our members are trained to deal with.

When we deal with large emergencies or longer delays, our members often look to management in the company for direction on how to govern those situations. Again, I would point to the resources coming from the company's perspective to assist our members in these types of unique situations—the planning, training and proper resources.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

I have a final question.

We talked about the need for greater investment to ensure there are adequate human resources available on board the trains.

Is the issue the magnitude of investment that the government is making in Via Rail writ large, or is it Via Rail's allocation of the resources they're provided by the government?

[Joel Kennedy]

That's a very good question.

I would say it's allocation, because there's been a major push for and expenditure on infrastructure. Obviously, we're not seeing that in their plans, training and passenger-related systems. Yes, they bought trains. Yes, they may be looking at some high-frequency rail. What else have they done to support their passengers and for their emergency preparedness?

This incident happened in a very populous part of the country. What if it had happened in northern Manitoba, where there is nothing around and it could be -40°C? I think we got very lucky in this situation. We need to learn from this situation, and we need to look at the internal planning and emergency preparedness of Via Rail.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Thank you very much.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Thank you, Mr. Bachrach.

Next, we'll go to Mr. Lawrence.

Mr. Lawrence, the floor is yours for five minutes.

[Philip Lawrence, Conservative, Northumberland—Peterborough South, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thanks, again, to the witnesses for being here. I really appreciate it.

I'm going to start with a question for Unifor.

Not too long ago, in my riding of Coburg, a Via Rail train broke down under different circumstances. It wasn't mechanical but rather from the weather, this time. There was a commissioned independent report with a number of recommendations.

I wonder if Unifor has a position on whether those recommendations have been adopted satisfactorily, or whether there's still work to be done.

[Joel Kennedy]

I haven't been privy to that report as of yet.

I apologize, but I cannot answer that question.

[Philip Lawrence, Conservative, Northumberland—Peterborough South, ON]

Ms. Murray, are you aware of it? Is there anything you would like to add?

[Jennifer Murray]

I have not seen that report, so I'm unable to respond either.

[Philip Lawrence, Conservative, Northumberland—Peterborough South, ON]

Thank you for that.

This is something that I think Via Rail should be sharing with you, and hopefully working collaboratively with the workers who keep the trains going. I'm a little surprised they haven't.

I'll have another question for Mr. Coderre in a second.

I want to say that it was definitely awful for the passengers, and it must also have been very difficult for the employees stuck in the middle. It can be very difficult to be in a position where you're expected to help people but don't have the tools.

First of all, I would like to say thank you to the Via Rail workers, who conducted themselves professionally, and to all rail workers who do that.

Perhaps I'm putting you in an unfair position, but that's what politicians do: Do you believe Via Rail set your workers up for failure by having a lack of resources and planning with respect to this delay?

[Joel Kennedy]

I will comment. Jen might also have a comment on this.

It is the employer's responsibility to keep the health and safety of our members in check. That is their responsibility under the labour code, under the law, so yes, I would say that their lack of investment absolutely put our members in harm's way that day.

[Philip Lawrence, Conservative, Northumberland—Peterborough South, ON]

Thank you.

Mr. Coderre, I believe that another member asked you questions with respect to what you received as compensation. I believe you received a refund and then a ticket or a free pass as well. Could you clarify that?

[Cédryk Coderre]

Yes. It was a travel credit.

[Philip Lawrence, Conservative, Northumberland—Peterborough South, ON]

Okay. That's perfect.

Were you made aware of, or is there, to your knowledge, a complaint resolution if you had wanted something more than that? Did Via advise you that there was any right or any process that you could go through to acquire a greater compensation for your 10-hour delay?