Evidence of meeting #13 for Transport, Infrastructure and Communities in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was rail.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Marc Brazeau  President and Chief Executive Officer, Railway Association of Canada
Joan Hardy  Vice-President, Sales and Marketing, Grain and Fertilizers, Canadian Pacific Railway
Julia Kuzeljevich  Director, Policy and Communications, Canadian International Freight Forwarders Association
Bruce Rodgers  Executive Director, Canadian International Freight Forwarders Association
David Montpetit  President and Chief Executive Officer, Western Canadian Shippers' Coalition
Daniel Dagenais  Vice-President, Port Performance and Sustainable Development, Montreal Port Authority

12:05 p.m.

Executive Director, Canadian International Freight Forwarders Association

Bruce Rodgers

That would surprise us equally.

Again, there are issues in China now where you have the shutdown, so that's affecting vessel departures. As was mentioned earlier, some of the vessels have cancelled sailings or blank sailings; they're not moving anymore.

I read a report this morning that exports are down by 40%, so if those exports are down coming into Canada, that will allow Canada an opportunity to clean out the backlog that they have today, but I would say that is very short term. Once that port opens again and traffic resumes, I would anticipate that we're going to be back to further congestion throughout the summer.

12:05 p.m.

Conservative

Matt Jeneroux Conservative Edmonton Riverbend, AB

I guess some of the solutions that were pitched were advanced technology and artificial intelligence, which are obviously longer term investments. I'm curious whether there's anything that you can give us, in the last 20 seconds I have, as an indication of what could be done urgently to get some of that backlog addressed.

12:05 p.m.

Executive Director, Canadian International Freight Forwarders Association

Bruce Rodgers

What we need is more berthing so that we can handle more ships through the Port of Vancouver. We need infrastructure and infrastructure projects. We are landlocked in Vancouver. We need better roads and better access points to allow cargo to flow.

12:05 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Peter Schiefke

Thank you very much, Mr. Jeneroux.

Next, we have Mr. Badawey.

Mr. Badawey, the floor is yours, and you have five minutes.

April 25th, 2022 / 12:10 p.m.

Liberal

Vance Badawey Liberal Niagara Centre, ON

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

I'm going to try to get through this in five minutes. I do want to offer the witnesses the opportunity to send in testimony following this meeting. We have an ability to pass on a lot of what you would otherwise say here, but also following this meeting, please submit to us anything you want to add so that it gets captured within the analysts' report.

With that, I'll preface my comments by saying this—and this goes to Mr. Montpetit's comments with respect to strategy, and of course, attached to strategy are plans of action.

We have already drafted an interim report on establishing a Canadian transportation and logistics strategy, with about 31 recommendations attached to that report. We are doing the supply chain study right now, within this committee, presently. We have the ports modernization review that we're also doing. With all of that said, and with respect to maximizing multi-modal ports, it's incumbent upon us to take all of those strategies to ensure that all of the recommendations, including the one that we're doing now, are all brought together to do exactly what Mr. Montpetit is saying. We need to have that strategy established—and, of course, attached to the recommendations that we receive from you and others, we need action plans.

Budget 2022 has signalled, in this case through Minister Alghabra, that the NTCF is going to be directed more to supply chains—so much so that the budget also identifies that he might change the name of the NTCF to reflect the priority of investment towards supply chains.

Once again, when we look at the national and strategic direction that you're taking in particular, that need to make it more robust is critical. When we look at capacity and at integrating distribution logistics, once again, it's critical that we receive recommendations from you folks, not only in five minutes or at this meeting, but obviously a lot more that I'm hoping will follow this meeting.

I know that in the Niagara region, for instance, right on the Great Lakes, we've established the Niagara Ports trade corridor in partnership with the Hamilton Oshawa Port Authority as well as through the municipalities. It's a multi-modal hub that takes advantage of the Welland Canal, main and short-line rail, air, road and, of course, ultimately, the location of the Niagara region. The Hamilton Oshawa Port Authority has now been delegated management of certain lands within the Welland Canal corridor, some in partnership with the private sector, as well as other modes of transportation.

I guess there are two questions that I would like answered here, if time permits. Following this meeting, you can send to us your responses in correspondence. This goes to Mr. Labbé's comments, with respect to capacity and resilience. To establish the capacity and resilience as well as the fluidity, do CN and others entertain opportunities to partner with the public and private sectors? How do you do that, and when do you do that?

To Mr. Brazeau, I ask the same question, and to Mr. Montpetit, the same question, especially as it relates on Mr. Labbé's side to shunting, expanding those operations and then having the ability not only to expand operations for CN but also, in relation to the multi-modal aspect of it, to promote further economic development.

Mr. Brazeau, to your comments with respect to that multi-modal network, and to Mr. Montpetit's comments, especially in relation to the infrastructure investments, what recommendations do you have with regard to the former NTCF, now the supply chain fund? How do you see that rolling out?

We'll start off with Mr. Labbé.

12:10 p.m.

Sébastien Labbé

Good morning. Thank you for the comments and questions.

We're always open to working with all of the customers, stakeholders and agencies in government to improve the supply chain. As Joan Hardy was saying earlier, it is not one supply chain, but multiple supply chains that have to coexist. We're working a lot right now to make sure that we have fluidity in all of the lanes with all of the commodities. We're always open to work.

As for the NTCF, it's a great initiative. An increased amount of money and faster approval would help tremendously with the supply chain.

12:10 p.m.

Liberal

Vance Badawey Liberal Niagara Centre, ON

Go ahead, Mr. Brazeau.

12:10 p.m.

President and Chief Executive Officer, Railway Association of Canada

Marc Brazeau

I'll be quick.

I'll just say that the NTCF has proven over the years to be very beneficial to the supply chain and to the railways. If there's a possibility or opportunity to dedicate more of the view to the entire supply chain network, we would be supportive of that. We're only as strong as our weakest link in the supply chain, and the supply chain needs to be robust.

I would also add to Mr. Rodgers' comment that it is about infrastructure. It's about investing in infrastructure. It's also about making sure that we have the right regulatory environment. Combined with that, we're hopeful that the money being put towards NTCF or the supply chain fund will be put to good use and rolled out quickly in project approval.

12:15 p.m.

Liberal

Vance Badawey Liberal Niagara Centre, ON

Thank you, Mr. Brazeau.

Go ahead, Mr. Montpetit.

12:15 p.m.

President and Chief Executive Officer, Western Canadian Shippers' Coalition

David Montpetit

Thank you, Mr. Badawey.

To respond to the NTC funding, obviously we have a lot of projects that are already on the go. Some are complete and many are on the books. Spending the money wisely and understanding where it's needed are key for this to begin with. There's a lot of good discussion around that this morning.

As far as moving forward is concerned, we need to start thinking about things a little differently. We've talked about transportation parks. One of the things that you mentioned, regarding looking at what you're doing at the Niagara Peninsula.... I think looking at and exploring other options and thinking differently from what we have are key.

Lastly—I can't emphasize this more—data metrics and information are also key to the supply chain. Visibility and getting visibility through information—I cannot stress this any more—are probably the most important factors that we could be working toward in spending and moving funding.

Thanks.

12:15 p.m.

Liberal

Vance Badawey Liberal Niagara Centre, ON

Thank you.

12:15 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Peter Schiefke

Thank you very much, Mr. Badawey.

Mr. Barsalou-Duval, you now have the floor for two and a half minutes.

12:15 p.m.

Bloc

Xavier Barsalou-Duval Bloc Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

My question is for Mr. Dagenais, from the Montreal Port Authority.

In your speech, you stressed how important the Contrecœur project is to the Port of Montreal. This new Port of Montreal terminal is planned for my riding.

It has been said that it's important the project be environmentally sound. Environment Canada set certain conditions for approving the Contrecœur project. We know that dredging can have a major impact and can greatly disturb fish habitat.

I will read you subsection 3(2) of the Decision Statement issued under section 54 of the Canadian Environmental Assessment Act, 2012. This is the subsection that deals with fish and fish habitat:

3.2 The Proponent shall perform the dredging required for the construction by using a dredging method or methods with the least impact to reduce emissions of suspended solids in the water column and reduce potential sediment depositions in the aquatic grass beds located downstream from the Designated Project.

We know there are various dredging methods available. There is traditional heavy mechanical dredging that leaves behind high concentrations of suspended solids, but there's also a system that suctions up the soil, and therefore the sediment, instead. This method generates less suspended sediment, and it's used by a Contrecœur local business that could do the work.

Given its obligations, will the Port of Montreal prioritize this dredging method above others?

12:15 p.m.

Vice-President, Port Performance and Sustainable Development, Montreal Port Authority

Daniel Dagenais

Thank you, Mr. Barsalou-Duval.

You're absolutely right, there are several dredging methods available to us as we build our wharf structure. When the time comes, alongside our private partners, we will naturally have to go with the technology and methods providing the best environmental performance. You referred to sediment resuspension and turbidity. You're quite right that this is one of the factors being assessed. It's also a condition we will have to meet for project approval in the final stages before completion and construction.

12:15 p.m.

Bloc

Xavier Barsalou-Duval Bloc Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC

I have another question for you.

Some environmental groups have expressed their dissatisfaction with the Port of Montreal's mitigation plan.

The plan seems to suit those assessing the project, but if ever you needed to do more along the way, would you be willing to do that?

12:15 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Peter Schiefke

Unfortunately, there's not enough time left for a response, Mr. Barsalou-Duval.

Thank you very much, Mr. Dagenais.

Next, we have Mr. Bachrach.

Mr. Bachrach, the floor is yours. You have two and a half minutes.

12:15 p.m.

NDP

Taylor Bachrach NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

We've heard from several witnesses today about the rail blockades that occurred in 2020 and the impact those had on the supply chain. Where I live in northwestern B.C., CN is the primary rail provider, so I'm going to direct my questions to Mr. Labbé.

When the rail corridor or line was built through much of Canada, it did not obtain any sort of consent from first nations. In many areas, there were no treaties. Today, when I travel to indigenous communities in Skeena—Bulkley Valley that have the rail line running through their territory, I hear so many stories about the impact the construction of the railroad had, and stories about the impact that rail transport continues to have on their communities.

My question is for CN specifically. I see your operating profit in 2021 was $5.6 billion. How many resources does CN invest in the project of reconciliation?

12:20 p.m.

Sébastien Labbé

I don't have the exact amount or details, but we're constantly, at many levels of the organization, engaging with stakeholders and communities—and first nations, for sure. Whether from specific departments, policies or daily operations, we have employees in all those communities working and living there. It's an ongoing effort to be a good corporate citizen.

12:20 p.m.

NDP

Taylor Bachrach NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC

Working with indigenous communities is unique compared to working with other kinds of stakeholders. Could you tell me how many individuals in your corporation are dedicated to working with indigenous communities?

12:20 p.m.

Sébastien Labbé

I don't have the exact number, but we do indeed have employees dedicated to working with those communities.

12:20 p.m.

NDP

Taylor Bachrach NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC

Would you be willing to table that information with the committee—both the financial amount dedicated to the project of reconciliation and the number of individuals in the company whose jobs are dedicated to working with indigenous communities?

12:20 p.m.

Sébastien Labbé

I will bring it up internally for a follow-up.

12:20 p.m.

NDP

Taylor Bachrach NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC

Thank you very much.

I'll stay with Mr. Labbé. Moving to....

I see my timer is going off. Does that indicate my time has run to an end, Mr. Chair?

12:20 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Peter Schiefke

You have seven seconds, Mr. Bachrach, if you're capable of doing something with that.

12:20 p.m.

NDP

Taylor Bachrach NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC

You know what I'll do? I'll cede that time to the next round. How about that? I'm trying to get better at keeping it concise.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.