Transport Committee on Oct. 10th, 2024

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Okay. It looks like we're going to push that motion to the second round, so that we have all the time that we can possibly have with the minister.

The floor is yours, Mr. Barsalou‑Duval.

[Xavier Barsalou-Duval, Bloc, Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC]

I would like to be sure about something. By “in the second round”, we are actually talking about the second hour of the meeting, is that right?

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Yes, that's right, the second hour of the meeting. Thank you.

Mr. Lawrence, your time will restart. You have 25 seconds left, sir.

[Philip Lawrence, Conservative, Northumberland—Peterborough South, ON]

That's fine.

Thank you very much, Minister. We appreciate your being here.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Thank you, Mr. Lawrence.

You have six minutes, Mr. Lauzon.

[Stéphane Lauzon, Liberal, Argenteuil—La Petite-Nation, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I would like to thank the minister for being here today.

In the course of this study, several witnesses have told us about incidents that caused delays. We have also talked with Via Rail, who told us about mechanical and other problems caused by environmental conditions, disruptions on the rails and so on.

Minister, you may be aware that the committee has done a study on high-speed trains. Can you explain how that would change the future of passenger rail transportation and how it might improve things for Via Rail?

[Anita Anand, Liberal, Oakville, ON]

Thank you for the question.

First, regarding the situation we have discussed and are going to continue discussing, I would like to say that we have to start thinking about Via Rail's long-term objectives now, not just for the future.

Regarding your question, the high-speed train is the major transportation infrastructure project in Canada. We have to think very big for our country. We are a G7 country, and we have to have a transportation system and infrastructure that live up to the public's expectations now and in the future. This is a priority for our government. That is not the case for the opposition.

So what are we going to do? We have heard from suppliers. We are currently looking at three high-frequency, high-speed train projects. A team has studied the procurement options and the bids. We are going to choose a rail transportation system project for Canada and for the future of our country. The benefits this offers for our transportation system are clear, but obviously there will be other benefits as well.

Thank you.

[Stéphane Lauzon, Liberal, Argenteuil—La Petite-Nation, QC]

Thank you, Minister.

Railways have been an important part of Canada's history. In fact, Prime Minister Pierre Elliott Trudeau made intercity rail service essential across Canada, which established Via Rail. It came from there. It is a Crown corporation and the first national passenger rail company.

How important is it for the government to invest in a service like Via Rail?

[Anita Anand, Liberal, Oakville, ON]

Clearly it is. As I have already said, this is not just a transportation issue; it is also an environment and climate change issue.

How can we reduce our carbon emissions? High-frequency, high-speed trains enable us to do that. How can we get more affordable housing close to railway stations? High-frequency, high-speed trains also enable us to do that. So we can see that this will offer opportunities for Canada. We have to be competitive in relation to other countries, certainly, but we also have to be competitive for Canadians. That is what I will be asking Via Rail, now and in the future, about another project: high-frequency, high-speed trains.

[Stéphane Lauzon, Liberal, Argenteuil—La Petite-Nation, QC]

Thank you, Minister.

I have a quick question, Minister.

There has been a bit of confusion or misunderstanding about Transport Canada and Via Rail. We all heard it here with Via Rail and Transport Canada.

Can you please share with this committee what the relationship is between you, Minister—or your staff—and Via Rail?

[Anita Anand, Liberal, Oakville, ON]

Listen, I want to start by stating a very basic fact: Via Rail is a Crown corporation. Via Rail is operationally separate from the Government of Canada. The Government of Canada is the sole shareholder of Via Rail. We can therefore set the broad policy parameters under which Via Rail operates.

However, when there is a situation like the one we are discussing today—outside of Quebec City, for example—

It is Via Rail's responsibility to deal with that. I will be asking questions and making sure I get answers. I am going to ask its senior executives what happened and tell them they have to do a better job for this country.

That's what I said on the phone with the CEO and the chair of the board. That was unacceptable, and that has to change.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Thank you very much, Minister.

Thank you, Mr. Lauzon.

Next to speak is Mr. Barsalou‑Duval.

The floor is yours for six minutes.

[Xavier Barsalou-Duval, Bloc, Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Welcome to the committee, Minister.

Congratulations on your new appointment as Minister of Transport.

I do share the concern that was raised earlier, that the Department of Transport and Treasury Board are two very big portfolios, two very big departments. I am actually wondering how you are going to find the time to get this work done properly, but it will be up to you to demonstrate that in how you do your job.

First, since we are discussing Via Rail today, I would like to tell you that I am actually pleasantly surprised to learn that since you were appointed, you have already had an opportunity to speak with Via Rail management.

In my opinion, if there is a reason for the situation that occurred at Via Rail, I put it down to bad management, bad service and service interruptions. I am not blaming you personally; I blame Via Rail management, the way Via Rail is organized.

In addition, if I were to fault the government for something, I would put it down to the fact that it has been so slow to start the process for a dedicated track service like the high-speed train, the high-speed train we are aiming for. There is also the fact that the long-haul fleet is obsolete, and that repeated breakdowns and such long service interruptions, whether we like it or not, are happening repeatedly, and this is of real concern.

Is this situation a matter of concern for you too?

[Anita Anand, Liberal, Oakville, ON]

Thank you for your question and comments.

I would like to start by saying that I completely agree with you. It is unacceptable for incidents like these to happen, whether once or twice or three times. These kinds of delays are unacceptable.

I have only been the Minister of Transport for three weeks. As you said, I have spoken with members of Via Rail management and I told them that this situation was not acceptable, either now or in future. I asked them what they intended to do now. I told them that I wanted updates, I wanted there to be a communication protocol, and I wanted to see their plan, now, for guaranteeing passengers exceptional service.

[Xavier Barsalou-Duval, Bloc, Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC]

Thank you for your answer.

However, I would have liked to know what is happening with the dedicated tracks for the much-talked-about HFR, or high-frequency rail, or HSR, high-speed rail. Regarding renewal of the long-haul train fleet, your government made a commitment for both fleets. We shall see, but I do not get the feeling there is any sense of urgency. I do not get the feeling that money has been budgeted for this.

Can you tell us whether changes are soon going to be made in this regard? Like it or not, we would like to see concrete measures, because we don't want to wait until the twelfth of never for it to happen. The long-haul train fleet is reaching its end. It dates from the 1950s. There could be worse than what happened on the rails between Montreal and Toronto. That is what we risk happening there if funds are not invested.

[Anita Anand, Liberal, Oakville, ON]

Thank you also for those questions.

We actually have invested in new trains in the corridor, which are entering into service right now.

[Xavier Barsalou-Duval, Bloc, Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC]

I am talking about the long-haul train fleet, Minister, not the fleet between Montreal and Toronto.

[Anita Anand, Liberal, Oakville, ON]

We have announced an investment in new cars. We are in the pre-procurement stage with those cars. I want to stress that our investments from 2021 through to 2024 have been in the millions of dollars, because we believe in rail service. We believe in renewing the fleet. That includes, in budget 2024, funding for a new fleet.

I'll ask my deputy minister to provide further details.

[Arun Thangaraj]

As the minister said, in 2018 Via Rail announced that Siemens had obtained a contract for the purchase of new locomotives and rolling stock, which are currently in service—

[Xavier Barsalou-Duval, Bloc, Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC]

Thank you. I understand, but you are still talking about the fleet between Montreal and Toronto. There are no figures. There are no amounts budgeted for the long-haul train fleet. You have barely started the procurement process, when these cars are 50 years old.

I don't have a lot of time left, so I am going to ask a different question.

My question is still about the rails, but actually about another type of rail.

Whenever your predecessor, Mr. Pablo Rodriguez, testified at this committee, I asked him whether the money for studies on the tramway between Ottawa and Gatineau was going to be allocated. Each time, he told me he was anxious to see the project, the money was coming, maybe even tomorrow morning, we were going to see the money soon.

Today, here you are, and we have been told since 2019 that the money was coming, but it still hasn't got here.

Can you tell us, Minister, maybe today, whether the money is going to get here tomorrow morning, or is going to get here today? When are you going to announce the money for the studies on the tramway to Gatineau? There is even a member from Outaouais here, around the table. I am sure he would be happy to hear it.

[Anita Anand, Liberal, Oakville, ON]

First, this is a priority for our government. It is a subject that involves the Minister of Housing, Infrastructure and Communities.

My deputy minister will undoubtedly be able to expand on the answer.

[Arun Thangaraj]

That was the answer. We'll work with our colleagues at Infrastructure Canada on the funding for the study.

[Xavier Barsalou-Duval, Bloc, Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Thank you, Mr. Barsalou‑Duval.

Next we have Mr. Bachrach.

Mr. Bachrach, the floor is now yours for six minutes, sir.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Welcome, Minister. Congratulations on your new role. It's good to have you here speaking about this very important situation that happened with Via Rail.

I wanted to take a moment to introduce Leila Dance, our wonderful new member of Parliament for Elmwood—Transcona in Manitoba. We're delighted to have her on board. We take trains so seriously that we're going to send twice as many people to committee. Even though that's only two, it's still a 100% increase.