Transport Committee on Dec. 10th, 2024

[Michel Béland, Acting Director General, Transportation of Dangerous Goods, Department of Transport]

Yes, I can answer that.

There is no warning given to private owners of land when a train is going through.

[Philip Lawrence, Conservative, Northumberland—Peterborough South, ON]

We're obviously doing everything we can to make sure that these derailments don't occur, but derailments happen and have happened, as evidenced by Lac-Mégantic.

If you could, go through the recommendations you've changed since Lac-Mégantic. What are the significant changes you've made?

[Yoan Marier]

I can talk about the recommendations. They were addressed, most of them, by—

[Philip Lawrence, Conservative, Northumberland—Peterborough South, ON]

But the significant.... Why should folks, particularly in Quebec, feel safer than they did?

[Yoan Marier]

Well, I think one of the big ones is the phase-out of the DOT-111 tank cars. It is a recommendation that we made in the wake of Lac-Mégantic. These cars will be completely phased out as of April 30, 2025, for the transportation of flammable liquids. They were replaced by the newer standard, the TC-117. That's a big one.

[Philip Lawrence, Conservative, Northumberland—Peterborough South, ON]

I have one minute left.

Mr. Scott, you brought up Via Rail and the slowing down issue. These are brand new locomotives. Has CN told you specifically what in these new locomotives prevents the safety mechanisms from being aware of their presence? That's my understanding of it. What is the fault there? Why do they have to slow down?

[Stephen Scott]

The information we have—based on CN because, as I mentioned in my opening remarks, these are restrictions from CN at this point in time—is that there's some inconsistent activation by the wheels on the trains of the sensors that activate the grade crossing warning systems that would be a mile or two miles down the line.

[Philip Lawrence, Conservative, Northumberland—Peterborough South, ON]

Is it just a problem with the compatibility of these new locomotives with the existing rail? There's no fault, but it's just about compatibility. Is that your understanding?

[Stephen Scott]

I think that's a fair characterization, yes. There's an inconsistency in the way they're triggering the gates and the bells.

[Philip Lawrence, Conservative, Northumberland—Peterborough South, ON]

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Thank you very much, Mr. Lawrence.

Mr. Lauzon, you have the floor.

[Stéphane Lauzon, Liberal, Argenteuil—La Petite-Nation, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I want to thank the witnesses for being here today.

Mr. Scott, you mentioned new technologies that can improve rail safety.

Can you tell us about current or future technological advancements that could improve grade crossing safety, including speed limitations, and overall passenger experience?

[Stephen Scott]

Thank you for the question. This is a very important matter.

Technology is a key part of safety going forward. We know that. A reference was made to train control technology, so that's something that we're advancing. These would be regulations that would compel railway companies to have smart driver-assist technologies in trains, so we're advancing on that.

There's another technology initiative under way in the department to advance what is called an automatic parking brake. This would be an automatic backup brake on trains. That's something else we're looking at.

Our role as the regulator is to ensure that whatever technologies do come online are safe and enhance safety. We can provide a level of assurance that whatever technologies are being brought in and being advanced by industry and others improve safety in rail.

[Stéphane Lauzon, Liberal, Argenteuil—La Petite-Nation, QC]

From what I understand, some technologies are directly linked with fatigue management and the implementation of physical fail-safe train controls on rail corridors. We use technology instead of manual inspections.

Is that correct?

[Stephen Scott]

Fatigue is one of the risks that we look to mitigate. The role of technology can come in and intervene, for example, in the operation of a train if the locomotive engineer misses a signal. There are ways that technology can be incorporated to improve the operation of a locomotive, for example. There are other technologies, as well, that will be looked at to improve the inspection of equipment and the inspection of brakes, to really elevate the level and comprehensiveness of inspections. That's also something that's being looked at.

[Stéphane Lauzon, Liberal, Argenteuil—La Petite-Nation, QC]

Mr. Marier, your inspection and audit reports deal with hazardous commercial products. We know that these types of products are subject to fairly stringent inspections, especially since the Lac-Mégantic accident. Adjustments were made following recommendations.

That being said, should we not also bring in restrictions and inspections for passenger trains? Humans are aboard these trains, after all.

Can you explain how freight train inspections differ from passenger train inspections?

[Yoan Marier]

If you are referring to my comments about enhanced train control, we have to keep in mind that passenger and freight trains often use the same railways. It is important for train crews to be able to recognize the signals and react appropriately when they are activated.

Sometimes, for one reason or another, a train crew member misses a signal because his head is down or he is talking with someone. When it happens, there is a risk of collision between two freight trains or a freight train and a passenger train, because they often use the same railways.

We believe this is why we have to implement additional safeguards that go beyond administrative measures like regulations.

[Stéphane Lauzon, Liberal, Argenteuil—La Petite-Nation, QC]

Mr. Scott, am I right in saying that every physical railway inspection in Canada results in a recommendation for the easy solution, which is to lower speeds?

You mentioned railway inspections and maintenance and infrastructure investments. Are those important aspects?

Can you provide more details on the conditions of the rails and the investments that would be required to improve the overall condition of the railway system?

[Stephen Scott]

Thank you for the question.

Track speeds are tied to the condition and class of track in Canada. There are five different classes of track. The maximum speed limit on a particular corridor is tied to a progressively augmented level of inspection requirements and infrastructure requirements. That's, generally speaking, how the track system operates, and that incentivizes investment in rail infrastructure to a higher level and an increased level of inspection.

[Stéphane Lauzon, Liberal, Argenteuil—La Petite-Nation, QC]

Ideally, to provide service in the Quebec City-Montreal-Windsor corridor, for example, would it be beneficial to have a dedicated, independent rail system? We often hear that every rail transportation service sharing the same rail system causes a lot of issues, especially at crossings.

Can you tell us if it is always the same crossings that are problematic?

[Stephen Scott]

In the corridor.... The high-frequency rail project that others in the department are advancing is intended to deal with that issue of a mixed freight/passenger network and have a dedicated passenger network in the corridor. That's from a service perspective, but it's also good from a safety perspective as well. You have dedicated lines for both passenger and freight.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Thank you very much, Mr. Scott.

Mr. Barsalou-Duval, you have the floor for six minutes.

[Xavier Barsalou-Duval, Bloc, Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Once again, I thank the witnesses for being with us today.

My first question is for Mr. Marier of the Transportation Safety Board, or TSB.

On November 14, there was a derailment in Longueuil involving tank cars containing hydrogen peroxide. The accident caused the confinement of thousands of people, including students of three schools, in an 800-meter radius, and the complete stoppage of train and road traffic, among other things. It got extensive media coverage. An accident like that in a densely populated area involving such a hazardous chemical is a major event.

I believe that the TSB is investigating. From what I understand, you deployed a team on the ground on November 16.

In your opening statement, you said that you were often the first ones on the scene. In this case, it took two days before your team got there.

Why did it take so long?

[Yoan Marier]

First, regarding the Longueuil derailment, the investigation is still ongoing.

As you said, we deployed investigators on the scene. They are still assessing the event. They spoke to people, examined the cars and looked at what happened. At this time, they are determining whether we will launch a full investigation and, if so, how it will be classified. The scope can range from limited to complex and the process can take between a few days and several weeks.

We expect Vincenzo De Angelis's team to make a decision on that case in the next few days.

Mr. De Angelis can provide more details on the delay before the deployment.

[Vincenzo De Angelis]

Actually, we sent a team on the scene on the day the accident occurred, in the afternoon. It is the deployment notice that was issued two days later.