Evidence of meeting #143 for Transport, Infrastructure and Communities in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was rail.
A video is available from Parliament.
Chair, Canadian Transportation Accident Investigation and Safety Board
That is correct. We expect a decision about the Longueuil accident in the coming days.
Conservative
Philip Lawrence Conservative Northumberland—Peterborough South, ON
Can I defer my remaining time to my next turn, Mr. Chair?
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Peter Schiefke
Yes. Thank you, Mr. Barsalou-Duval.
Mr. Bachrach, the floor is yours.
You have two and a half minutes, sir.
NDP
Taylor Bachrach NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.
Key routes risk assessment.... Key routes are sections of the rail corridor that see a particularly significant volume of dangerous goods transported along them. Who conducts a key routes risk assessment?
Director General, Rail Safety, Department of Transport
The railways conduct them, based on 28 risk factors.
NDP
Taylor Bachrach NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC
From the rules governing the key routes risk assessments, Transport Canada's website says that key routes risk assessments include assessing “Emergency response capability and capacity along the route including training of local fire services and municipalities with respect to the volumes and types of dangerous goods being transported”.
Does Transport Canada have a training level, a capacity or a capability that your department defines as sufficient to protect communities?
Director General, Rail Safety, Department of Transport
Under the rules, the railways are obligated to follow certain requirements with regard to dangerous goods trains. One of them is conducting an elevated risk assessment, which they submit to Transport Canada. We don't approve them. We look at them and we conduct a due diligence review on their risk assessments.
We then make a call about whether we need to follow up through an inspection or through other oversight measures, to ensure ourselves that the appropriate level of mitigation measures is being put in place. That's Transport Canada's role.
NDP
Taylor Bachrach NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC
You used the words “appropriate level”. Does Transport Canada define an appropriate level for the capability, capacity and training level for local fire services and municipalities?
Director General, Rail Safety, Department of Transport
We would look at it more globally. I'm not aware that we have a specific, discrete gauge for that particular indicator. We would look at it more on a global risk level.
NDP
Taylor Bachrach NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC
Do you mean global as in around the world, or global as in across all risks?
Director General, Rail Safety, Department of Transport
In aggregate, across the 28 risk factors, we would look at it from that perspective.
NDP
Taylor Bachrach NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC
You're asking the railways to assess the capacity of communities to respond to emergency incidents, yet there's no way that Transport Canada looks at the information they provide and says, yes, that looks sufficient, or no, that doesn't look good enough for events involving the goods that they're transporting.
Is that what I'm hearing?
Director General, Rail Safety, Department of Transport
Again, we look at the risk assessment in its totality.
NDP
Director General, Rail Safety, Department of Transport
We do a comprehensive assessment of the information—the risk assessment and mitigation measures—that the railway provides to us.
We're not a first responder, at Transport Canada, but we do need to make sure that the railways are taking those factors into consideration when they're designing their own operations and emergency plans, as the regulated entities.
December 10th, 2024 / 5:15 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Peter Schiefke
Thank you very much, Mr. Scott.
Mr. Vis, the floor is yours. You have six minutes, sir.
Conservative
Brad Vis Conservative Mission—Matsqui—Fraser Canyon, BC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I almost want to follow along on Mr. Bachrach's line of questioning with respect to key routes and risk assessment. As some of you are aware, I represent Canada's number one riding, Mission—Matsqui—Fraser Canyon, which also experienced the number one disaster in the history of Canada, the massive flooding and washouts of CN and CP rail lines in 2021.
Specifically, I'd like to request, as part of this study, that Transport Canada provide risk assessment information they've received from CN and CP railways regarding the Fraser Canyon. I reference the Fraser Canyon specifically, because these are rural and remote areas with small indigenous communities but some of the most dangerous parts of Canada's overall transportation network—going to the port of metro Vancouver, for example.
Just out of curiosity, with respect to the Fraser Canyon, what risk factors are in place to examine the potential impact on our iconic B.C. salmon stocks in those remote and rural areas?
Director General, Rail Safety, Department of Transport
Chair, I don't have the details of the risk assessment for the particular incident that the member is referring to. I'm happy to take it back to see what information we could provide in that particular instance, recognizing its importance.
Conservative
Brad Vis Conservative Mission—Matsqui—Fraser Canyon, BC
On the point about the risk assessments you received from CN and CP, that's not private information. That can be provided to this committee. Is that correct?
Director General, Rail Safety, Department of Transport
I would have to check. There might be some commercially confidential information there. It would really depend on the particular case.
Conservative
Brad Vis Conservative Mission—Matsqui—Fraser Canyon, BC
Did Transport Canada undertake any special risk assessment after there were more than 30 washouts on Canada's major transportation routes in the Fraser Canyon following the landslides and fires of 2021?
Director General, Rail Safety, Department of Transport
Again, under the rules, the railways conduct the risk assessments for their operations. I'm happy to check and provide what I can on those. I don't know if Transport Canada would have done its own risk assessment. I don't have any indication, but I'm happy to check.
Conservative
Brad Vis Conservative Mission—Matsqui—Fraser Canyon, BC
In that area, there are daily shipments of metallurgical coal and oil going to the port of metro Vancouver. What analysis has Transport Canada done on the possible impact that our natural resources, in the case of a spill or a natural disaster like the washouts, would have on our iconic salmon species?
Director General, Rail Safety, Department of Transport
Again, Transport Canada as the safety regulator wouldn't conduct assessments like that. Other government departments may have looked at it. It's an important question. I'm happy to take that back and check on what has been done.
Conservative
Brad Vis Conservative Mission—Matsqui—Fraser Canyon, BC
When I talk to my constituents, they are going to say to me, “Brad, I see all the metallurgical coal. We just wish that we had more pipelines and that the Trans Mountain pipeline was that much larger. We feel safer using pipelines than all of this crude oil being transported in an iconic area for our wild salmon stocks.”
I can't give them an answer on what Transport Canada would do when and if there is another disaster like what we experienced in 2021. If you haven't been to the area, you guys should check out what happened at Jackass summit. A portion of the highway the size of about two football fields was completely washed out. They've only just finished doing that work.
This is really top of mind for many people in the area. Any information you could provide to this committee would be important. We want to protect our salmon.