Transport Committee on May 5th, 2022

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Thank you very much, Ms. Koutrakis.

Are there questions or comments on the amendment put forward by Ms. Koutrakis?

[Melissa Lantsman, Conservative, Thornhill, ON]

I'll answer that. Thank you for the amendments. The difference between meaningful and full participation is very different in the eyes of Canada and the eyes of Taiwan. Given what we're trying to achieve in the global context, I'd like this to go to the House as a report, and I don't think that it will delay our committee study.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Go ahead, Ms. Koutrakis.

[Annie Koutrakis, Liberal, Vimy, QC]

Thank you for that, Ms. Lantsman. I just want to make sure that the Conservatives are not using concurrence motions in committee reports as a means of delaying the important work of Parliament, including our efforts to pass legislation for all Canadians.

Requiring a government response will allow the committee to express its view on this issue and compel the government to respond. This would be a more meaningful engagement than simply reporting to the House, so I'm hoping that maybe we could find a way to agree on the part of the report. If we can agree at least on a part of it instead of a report, a news release....

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Thank you, Ms. Koutrakis.

Go ahead, Ms. Lantsman.

[Melissa Lantsman, Conservative, Thornhill, ON]

I certainly think that a discussion in the House and a report to the House is much more meaningful than a press release. Our allies and those that we are seeking to have full participation in ICAO would certainly agree.

Again, I don't think it delays committee business, and I do think this is important business in the House, given the global context, so if you'd like to vote on the amendment, I guess we can do that, but I'm not sure that we're going to find, necessarily, agreement.

I'd like the motion to stand.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Are there any other questions or comments on the amendment?

Yes, Mr. Badawey.

[Vance Badawey, Liberal, Niagara Centre, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

I'll be a bit more blunt. I do think it's a tactic. I'm not going to sugar-coat it. It is a tactic to stall legislation that we're trying to put through in the best interests of Canadians. It's a back door through the committee to go to the House and do just that. You know it. We know it, and I want to go on record stating it.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Thank you very much, Mr. Badawey.

Are there any other questions or comments on the amendment put forward by Ms. Koutrakis?

Mr. Bachrach, you have the floor.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

I share some of the current concerns that have just been expressed about obstructive tactics in the House. At the same time, I also support, and the NDP supports, the content of the motion.

There are a lot of reports in the House, and the Conservatives seem to have ample opportunity to obstruct. I'm not sure that adding one more is going to change that, and I would just ask my colleague down the way to ensure that this is indeed in good faith and not meant as a tactic. I think this is a matter of importance, given the importance of Taiwan as a hub for air travel and the importance of ICAO as an organization aimed at ensuring safe air transportation.

I will support the motion as written with the caveat that I hope, when it does come to the House, it doesn't become part of what we've been seeing of late, which is concerning and should be concerning to Canadians as well.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Thank you very much, Mr. Bachrach.

Mr. Barsalou-Duval.

[Xavier Barsalou-Duval, Bloc, Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I, too, think Ms. Lantsman submitted an excellent motion.

The issue of support for Taiwan's bid is important and has nuances. The proposed change is not a nuance, rather it distorts the motion.

I would like to understand what the practical effect of the proposed amendment on the report will be. Perhaps the clerk could explain that to the committee. On the substance, it might be a good thing for the government to have to report on this issue.

That said, I would like to know whether this will lead to a debate in the House. What will the last part lead to?

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Thank you very much, Mr. Barsalou‑Duval.

Ms. Koutrakis, as you were the one who proposed this change, can you answer Mr. Barsalou‑Duval's question? If we pass the motion, what will happen? Why is it problematic?

[Annie Koutrakis, Liberal, Vimy, QC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

I am concerned that this will delay the important work that Parliament must do for all Canadians.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Thank you very much, Ms. Koutrakis.

Are there any other questions, comments or concerns on this?

Mr. Bachrach.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Mr. Chair, I certainly take Ms. Koutrakis' point and the concern that's been expressed.

I also think that we can't allow what's currently happening in the House, which is, indeed, troubling and obstructive, to hold the committee work hostage and prevent us from conducting what is an important function, which is reporting to the House on the things that we discuss as a committee.

I do think this is an important issue. I think it's important that the committees are able to report to the House. And I think that when those reports get to the House, they should be dealt with in good faith by all parties. I very much hope that will be the case when this lands in the House in the near future.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Thank you very much, Mr. Bachrach.

Mr. Iacono.

[Angelo Iacono, Liberal, Alfred-Pellan, QC]

It kills me to hear comments about what is happening in the House. I would like the member preceding me to explain exactly what is happening in the House that is causing so much turmoil. Just speaking dans le vide, as we say in French, it's very easy to say.

I think what's happening in the House is going very smoothly. The government is there to defend the interests of Canadians. To insinuate that there's turmoil in the House of Commons, I think, is misleading.

I'd rather have him make comments like that with proof of what he's trying to say rather than just saying it to say it.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Thank you, Mr. Iacono.

Mr. Rogers, I'll go to you next, and then to you, Mr. Bachrach, if you'd like to respond afterwards.

[Churence Rogers, Liberal, Bonavista—Burin—Trinity, NL]

Mr. Chair, I share some of the concerns of my colleagues on this particular motion and what it might mean for action in the House on this if we go with this motion.

I would support the amendment by my colleague and hope that we could, perhaps, get some time to think about this. If a vote is necessary, maybe we could deal with it in our next meeting.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Okay.

[Melissa Lantsman, Conservative, Thornhill, ON]

Mr. Chair, if I could interject, I have one comment.

Perhaps I can encourage you, given that we have a time constraint that you've told me about, to call a vote.

It is concerning to hear the committee say that we can't report to the House on any of our reports or any discussions that the committee speaks about. It is one of the roles of committee. It is an important role of the committee. I certainly hope that those in the Taiwanese community and certainly those who have supported this, as I have, a long time before I came to this place, are not watching this and are not seeing this being used as an excuse of some kind of turmoil in the House. This is important committee business, and I hope that we can call a vote.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Are there any other questions or comments on this?

Okay. All those in favour of Ms. Koutrakis' amendment?

We will have a recorded division.

(Amendment negatived [See Minutes of Proceedings])

Now we will go to the vote on the motion presented by Ms. Lantsman.

(Motion agreed to [See Minutes of Proceedings])

The motion carries.

Thank you very much, colleagues. Have a great weekend.

This meeting is now adjourned.