Transport Committee on June 2nd, 2022

[Suzanne Acton-Gervais]

Yes, we can do that.

[Angelo Iacono, Liberal, Alfred-Pellan, QC]

What is contributing to the delays we're seeing at airports?

[Suzanne Acton-Gervais]

Right now, because of the health measures that are in place at airports, passengers have to stay on board the aircraft longer when they arrive at their destination. That certainly contributes to delays. It is also very difficult for the employees, because they have to deal with passengers' frustrations.

Delays are also due to a lack of staff at border services. It is estimated that before the pandemic, the screening process took 30 seconds per passenger, whereas it now takes five times that, from two to two and a half minutes.

As the interim president of the National Airlines Council of Canada mentioned, about 50,000 passengers arrive in Toronto every day, for example, and that number is expected to increase significantly this summer.

[Angelo Iacono, Liberal, Alfred-Pellan, QC]

What percentage of your members are vaccinated, or rather, how many are unvaccinated?

[Suzanne Acton-Gervais]

I don't have the answer to your question. I don't have that data. Maybe it would be a—

[Angelo Iacono, Liberal, Alfred-Pellan, QC]

Excuse me, but I heard earlier that it was the fact that employees were not vaccinated that prevented you from offering the service.

So my question is this: what is the number of unvaccinated employees, so that it would affect your work and would have an effect on the employee shortage?

[Suzanne Acton-Gervais]

I'm not sure I understand the question. Are you asking me how many unvaccinated employees there are within border services and CATSA, or in the airline industry?

[Angelo Iacono, Liberal, Alfred-Pellan, QC]

Both.

[Suzanne Acton-Gervais]

I believe that in terms of CATSA and border services, that question should instead be directed to government agencies.

For our part, that would be a question for the other witnesses here.

That said, we know that about 10% of the Canadian population is unvaccinated. Similarly, we can estimate that approximately 10% of our employees are unvaccinated.

[Angelo Iacono, Liberal, Alfred-Pellan, QC]

How can we track the issue of delays internationally? Is there an organization that compiles information on airport delays?

[Suzanne Acton-Gervais]

Yes. I mentioned the International Air Transport Association earlier. It's an association that represents airlines around the world, with over 290 members, and is headquartered in Montreal. This organization is compiling delays worldwide.

[Angelo Iacono, Liberal, Alfred-Pellan, QC]

Thank you.

My next questions are for Mr. Rheault, Mr. Liebman and Mr. Gibbons.

Can you tell us briefly, in turn, what federal programs have been most helpful to you in getting through this pandemic?

Let's start with you, Mr. Gibbons.

[Andy Gibbons]

With respect to federal support during the pandemic, our company did not negotiate a support package with the federal government. I believe we were the only airline that did not do so. We did not participate in that support that was under discussion. We did use the Canada emergency wage subsidy, and we have thanked the government on multiple occasions for the importance of that in keeping our employees, because we have a very strong culture of keeping them tied to our business. The wage subsidy at the same time was also a flowthrough to avoid having people go on EI, but we did take advantage of that program and we're grateful for it.

[Angelo Iacono, Liberal, Alfred-Pellan, QC]

Thank you.

Mr. Liebman.

[Howard Liebman]

I would like to say on behalf of my 4,000 colleagues at Air Transat that we're very grateful for the generous financial support of the government to get through this unprecedented pandemic.

As I mentioned earlier, Air Transat was shut down twice and significantly impacted by omicron. Prior to COVID, Air Transat had never received a cent in federal financial support. We made great use of the wage subsidy for our employees, and we are as well borrowers under the LEEFF, the large employer emergency financing program.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Thank you very much, Mr. Liebman.

Thank you, Mr. Iacono.

Go ahead, Mr. Barsalou‑Duval. You have two and a half minutes.

[Xavier Barsalou-Duval, Bloc, Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Earlier, when the representatives of the various airlines had the opportunity to answer questions, they talked a lot about all the fees charged at the airports and those imposed by the government. These are fees that are weighing on them, in the context of the recovery.

Ms. Acton‑Gervais, you represent the airlines. I'd like to know how Canada compares to other countries in terms of the airport management model, ticket pricing, and travel costs. Are there countries where it's different? Which countries should we be looking at more?

[Suzanne Acton-Gervais]

That's a very good question.

Some countries started with the same model and evolved. The pandemic has really exposed the vulnerabilities and shortcomings in the way airline industry is funded in Canada. That's why we're asking the government to take this opportunity to immediately review the models used elsewhere and the fees that apply and consider reinvesting these dollars in airports in Canada.

[Xavier Barsalou-Duval, Bloc, Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC]

Thank you.

My next question could be for just about any of the witnesses here, but I'll direct it to Mr. Liebman.

During the pandemic, NAV CANADA fees charged to carriers exploded. I don't know the impact of this increase on large carriers, but I know it's had a monstrous effect on small carriers.

Was the approach taken during this period the right one? In the future, should there be a different approach to the imposition of new fees by entities like NAV CANADA? How should this be handled?

[Howard Liebman]

Thank you for the question.

Yes, we were closed for a long time, so the consequences will be felt in the future.

We think a user‑pay model should be considered. Without users, there are no payers, so the system doesn't work.

This could be an opportunity to look at how the Canadian system is funded and look at best practices elsewhere. Monique Leroux, chair of the Industry Strategy Council of Canada, submitted a report to the government in which the issue is partially addressed. It would be useful to consider such an approach.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Thank you very much, Mr. Liebman.

Thank you very much, Mr. Barsalou‑Duval.

Next we have Mr. Bachrach.

Mr. Bachrach, the floor is yours for two and a half minutes.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I listened recently to an interview with Barry Rempel, who recently retired from the Winnipeg Airport Authority. He really highlighted that the congestion we're seeing at the airports is in part due to the airlines shifting to a hub-and-spoke model, with fewer direct flights from medium airports, and how that's putting more passengers into hubs like Toronto Pearson. Is this accurate, and do you acknowledge the role that airline scheduling has played in contributing to the situation we're seeing at Pearson?

[Suzanne Acton-Gervais]

Airline scheduling—

[David Rheault]

May I answer?

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

I have only two and a half minutes.