Transport Committee on June 2nd, 2022

[David Rheault]

Perhaps, if I may, I would say that the concentration of international long-haul flights in key hubs has always been there. It was like that before the pandemic. In fact, even in hubs like Toronto Pearson, we have fewer departures than we did before the pandemic, so no, this is not the factor that is creating all the delay we have now.

[Andy Gibbons]

I could not disagree more with our friend Mr. Rempel with respect to that comment.

I don't think the Minister of Transport could disagree more either, because he said last week that he would not ask airlines to change their schedules. He has not asked and will never ask airlines to change their schedules. I think we all need to think about it like it's potash going through the port authority or an auto part getting across the border. Our product needs to move through the facilities. We're the investors and the job creators, so I absolutely do not accept that airline schedules, which are created to maximize job creation and economic connectivity, are at fault here.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

I have time for one more quick one.

Could the federal government have better anticipated the rebound in air traffic and air travel?

Ms. Acton-Gervais.

[Suzanne Acton-Gervais]

Throughout the pandemic we have worked very closely with the Government of Canada. We have been working toward the restart of aviation. Could it have been better prepared for? Perhaps that is a question to pose to the government.

We are certainly looking for these agencies to be resourced in order to support the rebound of air travel. This is not just about our business, but about the traveller experience. It is also about Canada's reputation on the world stage.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Thank you very much, Madame Acton-Gervais.

Thank you very much, Mr. Bachrach.

Go ahead, Mr. Godin. You have five minutes.

[Matt Jeneroux, Conservative, Edmonton Riverbend, AB]

Mr. Chair, I'll jump in for Mr. Godin, if we're looking for a Conservative.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Please go ahead.

[Matt Jeneroux, Conservative, Edmonton Riverbend, AB]

Thank you.

I want to get back to a question that started with Mr. Gibbons.

My colleague asked the minister last week if he is going to bring in those performance standards and passenger rights for travel into government services. I'm just curious as to your thoughts on that. Would your guests—your travellers—appreciate something like that?

[Andy Gibbons]

I think so. It's the same logic that led to the APPR, which this committee studied and the previous minister of transport brought forward. If you believe that regulations are good to keep an airline honest or on track and that passengers should very clearly know what they're entitled to or not entitled to, I think that should apply to everyone who is delivering a service to a Canadian traveller or foreign visitor.

The answer to that question is, yes, we would support it. No matter where you are in travel or on a journey, I think you should have a really good understanding of what you're entitled to. That could even include compensation, but I think that's a good issue for this committee to look at.

I would just add one more note to that, Mr. Jeneroux. These aren't just consumer nuisances and “delays”. If facilitation processes aren't world class in southern Ontario, citizens there will cross the border and head to Detroit or Buffalo, so it's a competitiveness issue as well for Canada. We have to stop bleeding guests and gifting air traffic and jobs to that sector in that country. We need to keep them here. It's not just convenience and delay; it's a fundamental economic issue for the country that we have to get right.

[Matt Jeneroux, Conservative, Edmonton Riverbend, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Gibbons.

I want to pick up on that, but I'll go to Mr. Liebman on some of that economic competitiveness.

When a consumer has the option to choose one region over another, as in Mr. Gibbons's example—like in the border cities that we all know well, where passengers can jump across the border and fly on a different airline that perhaps has less of those concerning challenges that they often face—can you provide our committee with some examples of where and how that happens and how it is leaving the Canadian airline less competitive in some regions of the world?

[Howard Liebman]

Sure. It's no surprise to anybody on this committee that many of the large city airports are in close proximity to the U.S. border.

It goes back to the user-pay model that I spoke to earlier, which forces significant fees through to the users. In another jurisdiction, such as the United States, where airports and air travel are not viewed as a tax-generator for general revenues, as far as I understand it, those fees and charges are much less. If a family of four, five or six—multiplied by a few hundred dollars and fees per person—is looking to avoid that, they could go elsewhere. It becomes a competitiveness issue that will then have an impact on a rather critical industry for bringing goods and people across a country as large as ours. It's certainly a question worthy of further study.

[Matt Jeneroux, Conservative, Edmonton Riverbend, AB]

Just quickly, Mr. Rheault, could you comment on some of the economic competitiveness that Air Canada is facing with other airlines around the world?

[David Rheault]

Like I said, we must look at all taxes and fees imposed on industry very carefully as a country, because they impact the competitiveness of the carriers. If we want to build a global connectivity in Canada and powerful hubs, we have to make sure that the infrastructure, the costs and the fees are competitive on a global scale.

[Matt Jeneroux, Conservative, Edmonton Riverbend, AB]

What would some of those taxes and fees be, then, that you would advocate for?

[David Rheault]

I will give you an example. Canada is the only country that charges airport rent to its main airports. For Montreal, for instance, something like $50 million a year is going back to the federal government without any service in return or without that money being reinvested in industry. All the taxes and fees that are collected from the industry should at least be reinvested into the industry to improve the infrastructure.

[Matt Jeneroux, Conservative, Edmonton Riverbend, AB]

Thanks. I believe my time is up, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Thank you very much, Mr. Jeneroux. You are one of the few who leaves 20 seconds on the table, so I appreciate that very much. It helps me to keep on time.

Next we have Mr. Rogers. The floor is yours for five minutes.

[Churence Rogers, Liberal, Bonavista—Burin—Trinity, NL]

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Welcome to our guests and to the people joining virtually. Thank you for being here today and participating in our important study. I've been a part of this committee since 2019, and there have been many debates around this table with people about vaccines and vaccine mandates and how we would protect people during the height of COVID-19, and the importance of protecting the health of Canadians. Many of the measures we've taken obviously have been about the health and safety of Canadians, including vaccine mandates, and so on.

As Mr. Badawey said, we all want to do the right thing here for the country and for the airline industry, and for every other industry.

I want to ask you this, Mr. Gibbons, and maybe Mr. Rheault could react as well. The Minister of Transport has announced a number of working groups to help address the issues of delays in the industry. Have the airlines been included in these groups, and do you think that the federal government has taken the delay issues seriously?

[Andy Gibbons]

I absolutely think the government is taking them seriously, because it is serious. I think they're seized with them. I think the minister's comments make clear that he's seized with them, but we have to talk about how we measure progress. We're not talking just about whether the customs hall should take you four minutes, five minutes or 10 minutes. There are Canadians who cannot get off our aircraft, sometimes for two hours. This is a crisis situation in our view.

To your question, we are involved. He has engaged us, and we are working collaboratively with the government on solutions. The answer to that is yes.

[Churence Rogers, Liberal, Bonavista—Burin—Trinity, NL]

Mr. Rheault.

[David Rheault]

I would agree with my colleague. We are involved. We are in discussion with the government, and everybody understands that this is a very serious situation that requires immediate action to be taken. I would say from an industry perspective that what's different now versus three years ago are all of the health requirements and checks that need to be made by an agent, for instance, when people arrive in Canada. This has an impact on average processing times. When you multiply it by the thousands of passengers arriving a day, this is certainly a cause of the bottleneck we are seeing now at the airport, and this is why we think the process should be streamlined.

I also want to just add to the comment made previously by my colleague Suzanne on the vaccination rate. I want to just say that for employees at Air Canada we have a very high compliance rate for vaccination.

We're talking about a rate of over 90%.

[Churence Rogers, Liberal, Bonavista—Burin—Trinity, NL]

I remember testimony previously, back when we talked about COVID-19, when it first originated. Some people predicted that it would be five years before the airline industry rebounded. What are your thoughts on that? What kinds of measures have been introduced so far, or are being contemplated, that might assist with the problem we're dealing with here with the airlines?

Ms. Acton-Gervais.

[Suzanne Acton-Gervais]

I'm sorry. I missed the last part of the question.

[Churence Rogers, Liberal, Bonavista—Burin—Trinity, NL]

What kinds of measures have been introduced so far, or are being contemplated, that would be of assistance to the airlines and the airline industry from the federal government's side?

[Andy Gibbons]

We have been focused on recovery and on removing barriers to that recovery so we can maximize job creation and connectivity. We're on track with that, at WestJet. In June, this month, we will be at 100%. We will fly as many seats as we did in June 2019, prepandemic. We're very proud of that. We're doing our part to bring this country back.