Transport Committee on Aug. 19th, 2022

[Xavier Barsalou-Duval, Bloc, Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Minister, the Liberals seem to be the only ones who think the ArriveCAN app is the greatest thing since sliced bread. However, the Customs and Immigration Union people tell us it slows them down, and airline representatives say it complicates their operations.

Travellers are threatened with $5,000 fines if they don't use the app, and they contact our offices in a panic because they don't know how to use it. It's full of bugs and they get stuck.

We asked you to shelve the app until the errors could be corrected. Why didn't you do that?

[Omar Alghabra, Liberal, Mississauga Centre, ON]

Thank you for the question.

Mr. Chair, as I stated just now, ArriveCAN enables CBSA and public health officers to ensure that international arrivals have their vaccination status accurately verified before entering Canada, as per public health measures that we have. Without ArriveCAN, the processing time for international arrivals would increase significantly.

Having said that, I know that there are those who have some concerns about ArriveCAN. CBSA, the Minister of Public Safety, Transport Canada and others are going to work with all of our stakeholders to ensure that the tool does its job as efficiently as possible. But I can assure you that if we suspend ArriveCAN today, it will add significant complications to the congestions we have at our airports today.

[Xavier Barsalou-Duval, Bloc, Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC]

That's surprising. You're the only ones saying that the ArriveCAN app shortens delays, while Canada now leads the world in airport delays. We want to believe, but we're more skeptical for the moment.

My impression is that you're letting people deal with the problems and have introduced a program that isn't ready, that isn't final. That affects the lives of the people who are falsely told they have to quarantine when that isn't warranted. That causes stress because people can't get the app to work properly.

We feel that travellers are being treated like laboratory rats.

Do you think that's right?

[Omar Alghabra, Liberal, Mississauga Centre, ON]

Mr. Chair, opposition members in the past claimed that the transportation vaccine mandate, which now has been suspended, was causing the congestion. They were wrong. I can tell you that they are wrong when they claim that ArriveCAN is causing congestions at our airports today.

I have explained, in all honesty and transparency, the root causes of these congestions. We are working with our partners to address them. We're seeing significant improvements over the last two months. Data can be provided to back it up. This is moving in the right direction. We will work with partners on ensuring that we can improve ArriveCAN. We address the concerns that people have, but it's not causing the congestions at our airports.

[Xavier Barsalou-Duval, Bloc, Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC]

Minister, we feel you've come here to boast. I'm not sure ordinary citizens view the matter as you do.

People generally buy airline tickets several months ahead of time, not two days before departure. So it's possible to anticipate the situation. However, you've completely failed to do so. In a briefing note that was drafted in May and leaked to the media, CATSA indicated that it had a 25% labour shortage. You were personally aware of that situation, which then worsened before slightly improving in August.

The problem was clearly caused by you, but you decided to blame the airports and airlines rather than take action. Why?

[Omar Alghabra, Liberal, Mississauga Centre, ON]

The report that my honourable colleague is referring to is exactly what I am noting right now. There is a labour shortage issue.

In May, all agencies, companies and airports had a massive labour shortage compared with the surge in demand that occurred then. We acted quickly. We were preparing for it, but the surge ended up being beyond what was expected. This is good news for the sector, but every player in the sector had to catch up.

Significant improvements are taking place. I'm not here to applaud our government's action. I'm here to applaud those who work on the front lines in responding to the surge in demand. Let's recognize the progress that is taking place. Let's build confidence in our sector and acknowledge that there's still work to be done. Let's not dismiss the progress that has taken place over the last few weeks.

[Xavier Barsalou-Duval, Bloc, Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC]

Minister, on June 16, the parliamentary secretary informed the committee that dealing with the chaos in the airports would mean “micromanag[ing] these kinds of [day-to-day] operational decisions”. That's one way to wash one's hands of the matter.

Today you tell us about your actions and boast that the situation's improving. My sense is that you've since changed your tune.

Would you say you failed miserably and ultimately tried to wash your hands of the situation before it blew up in your face?

[Omar Alghabra, Liberal, Mississauga Centre, ON]

I've been consistent since May. A labour shortage is the root cause of airport congestion—the labour shortage at airports, the labour shortage at airlines and the labour shortage at other agencies. There is an imbalance between the appetite of people who want to travel and the ability to service those who want to travel.

Significant progress has taken place over the last few weeks, and we're seeing similar phenomena around the world. This is not just unique to Canada. This is part of the recovery from the COVID public health measures that the world has witnessed over the last two years. This is not an excuse; these are the facts.

I am here to reaffirm our commitment to continue to work with our partners to ensure that we build on the successes that have taken place and continue to focus on addressing the remaining issues.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Thank you very much, Minister.

Thank you very much, Mr. Barsalou‑Duval.

Next we have Mr. Taylor Bachrach.

Mr. Bachrach, the floor is yours. You have six minutes.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Minister, for being with us today despite your illness. It's much appreciated because the topic we're discussing is one that affects thousands, if not millions, of Canadians.

You mentioned in your opening remarks the extraordinary circumstances that we've seen over the past number of years. That is indeed true. Obviously, there's been a global pandemic, a surge in travel, and staffing shortages, and all of that has had an impact.

However, within that context, the treatment of air passengers has been atrocious. You mentioned people sleeping on the floors of our airports. The cancellations, the delays and the ways air passengers have been treated, both by the government and by the major airlines, have been nothing short of shameful. I think everyone in this meeting has seen this first-hand when travelling through Canada's major airports.

Your government brought in with great fanfare the air passenger bill of rights, or the APPR, which was supposed to have air passengers' backs. Can you tell me with a straight face that those regulations have protected air passengers over the past year?

[Omar Alghabra, Liberal, Mississauga Centre, ON]

Let me thank all of my colleagues for their well wishes. I can say—

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Minister, I only have six minutes. I have a lot of questions for you, so if you could—

[Omar Alghabra, Liberal, Mississauga Centre, ON]

Well, I'm glad you have a lot of questions. That's why I'm here, Mr. Bachrach.

Look, as I said, governments for decades didn't do anything about passenger rights. We did something; we took action. These regulations protect passenger rights. Currently, the CTA is going through thousands of complaints that passengers have submitted.

Let me state unequivocally that it's unacceptable to see passengers sleep on the floor at airports. While I want to avoid speaking about specific cases, as you can imagine, because I leave it up to the CTA to examine the merits of each case, it's unacceptable. There are standards that make sure airlines fulfill their end of the bargain, and the CTA is responsible for going through these complaints and adjudicating them. I am confident that they will do everything they can to uphold these regulations to ensure that airlines fulfill their end of the bargain.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Minister, what is the current backlog of complaints submitted to the CTA?

[Omar Alghabra, Liberal, Mississauga Centre, ON]

I am not 100% sure, but I think it's about maybe 15,000.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

The last time we checked, it was 18,000.

The service standard for the CTA is 20 days to resolve a complaint. How long is it currently taking the CTA to resolve a passenger complaint?

[Omar Alghabra, Liberal, Mississauga Centre, ON]

Mr. Bachrach, the recent budget in April included an additional $11 million to the CTA to help them deal with their backlog. Now, the backlog has also increased; I recognize that. I can assure you that my personal commitment, and our government's commitment, is to continue to work with the CTA so they have the resources they need to address the backlog.

The work the CTA does is incredibly important for confidence in our aviation sector and for protecting passenger rights, and we provided additional resources. I know that we need to continue working with the CTA at ensuring that they have the resources they need to address and clear the backlog.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Minister, let's say there's a backlog of roughly 18,000 complaints before the CTA. How many complaints has the CTA resolved over the past year?

[Omar Alghabra, Liberal, Mississauga Centre, ON]

I don't know the answer. Maybe I'll ask our deputy minister or someone on our team if they can answer that question.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

We can see Mr. Keenan getting ready there, but we're going to have the officials during the next hour, so I'll save that question for then.

The CTA is also able to issue fines in situations of non-compliance, fines to the airlines of up to $25,000. Are you aware of any fines being issued under the APPR directly related to the passenger bill of rights?

[Omar Alghabra, Liberal, Mississauga Centre, ON]

Again, I need to look back. I think there were. I don't know if they're always made public, but, again, I'll defer to officials to provide that information, whatever is at least publicly available.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Maybe, Minister, I'll ask you this. All these questions have been about the CTA's area of jurisdiction. You brought to this meeting a number of officials from different agencies. Why didn't you bring anyone from the CTA?

[Omar Alghabra, Liberal, Mississauga Centre, ON]

Look, Mr. Bachrach, the committee can invite whomever they want to.

The CTA is a quasi-judicial, independent body that adjudicates complaints independently. It is really important that the government supports the work of the CTA but also avoids prejudging the outcomes of their decisions and does not appear to be dictating to the CTA how to decide on the complaints they have before them.

It is really important to respect the independence of the CTA, while supporting them in fulfilling their mandate.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Minister, do you agree with me that the treatment of air passengers over the past year has been inappropriate, has been atrocious?

[Omar Alghabra, Liberal, Mississauga Centre, ON]

Mr. Bachrach, I said clearly that there have been examples that were reported on in the media that were unacceptable and should not be tolerated. Again, I want to avoid speaking about a specific issue and not prejudge the outcomes of CTA examinations, but there have been horrific stories in the media that have been unacceptable.