Transport Committee on Sept. 28th, 2022

[Churence Rogers, Liberal, Bonavista—Burin—Trinity, NL]

Thank you.

I think I'm out of time, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Yes. Thank you very much, Mr. Rogers.

Mr. Barsalou‑Duval, you have the floor for six minutes.

[Xavier Barsalou-Duval, Bloc, Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Mr. McKenna, several members of the committee have discussed the impact of the pandemic on the airline industry, and I'd like to continue along those same lines.

In the context of the study we're conducting, I'm thinking of the striking example of the massive increase in fees that Nav Canada charges the airlines and all other users of its services. You discussed that in your opening statement, but there are other cases in which the federal government seems to consider the airports as a cash cow rather than a service to the community.

Please tell us more about that.

[John McKenna]

Yes, that's a good example. Everyone in the industry was shocked to see that the government didn't assist Nav Canada, which provides a service that we consider essential. Nav Canada requested government assistance after its revenue fell 90%, but the government told it that, since it was now a private business, it had to make do on its own. Consequently, Nav Canada raised its fees by 29.5%.

All those fee increases, not to mention rising fuel prices, are delaying our industry's recovery and are extremely harmful. So I think the government really should have assisted Nav Canada in the circumstances. At the very least, it could start paying service fees for its aircraft and military aircraft, which it has not yet done. Nav Canada has had to bear all those costs.

I sit on the committee that's examining the privatization of the Canadian Air Transport Security Administration. We wonder how it would fare if it were privatized in the event of another pandemic. Would the government leave us to our own devices?

The government must support businesses that provide an essential service, one for which it establishes the standards.

[Xavier Barsalou-Duval, Bloc, Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC]

Thank you very much, Mr. McKenna.

Mr. Massé, from Aéroports de Montréal, the ratings we saw over the summer for Canadian airports, particularly in Toronto and Montreal, were not exactly glowing. Our airports were among the worst in the world for flight delays.

Earlier on, you seemed to be saying that these were not necessarily issues that fall within your sphere of responsibility. And yet it's your reputation that takes the hit. Do you think there are any lessons to be learned here?

[Martin Massé]

That's an excellent question.

I believe Mr. Boudreau spoke about the salaries offered to airport employees and the raiding that goes on between companies and services. In the end, we serve the same clients, the passengers, and from now on we need to learn to provide better treatment for those who toil in these jobs.

That's why we worked with with employers to introduce staff attendance and retention programs. We want to do something about the chronic shortage of staff in these jobs which, even though they don't necessarily require recognized skills, are essential, as we saw during the summer.

It's important for flight schedules to be followed, not only the team of pilots and flight attendants on the aircraft, but also on the ground, whether by the airline company or an affiliated service provider. The people who come to work must be treated properly.

[Xavier Barsalou-Duval, Bloc, Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC]

Thank you.

Not so long ago, we welcomed representatives of the Canadian Air Transport Security Authority, and some public servants, to the committee. On that occasion, we drew attention to the introduction of new standards for passenger rights and said that we would have liked to make them even stricter. But we also said that we were pleased to see that there had been improvement.

In addition, we raised a potentially interesting point by suggesting that the standard should apply not only to the airline companies, but also to government organizations. The airline companies . after all, ended up being forced to provide a level of service and reliability that the government itself does not provide, which sends a peculiar message.

Do you have any comments on that, Mr. Massé and Mr. McKenna?

[Martin Massé]

I don't have a position on this from my organization to report to the committee.

However, the goal is clearly to serve passengers as quickly as possible. We know that since the pandemic, the tolerance level for lineups at various contact points during passenger trips has been declining. People need to be given proper service, as quickly as possible.

[Xavier Barsalou-Duval, Bloc, Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC]

Mr. McKenna, do you have any comments?

[John McKenna]

Thank you.

Our industry is currently suffering from delays of a kind never seen before in connection with services from Transport Canada or other government organizations. The delays are staggering, whether for issuing access cards to restricted areas, certifying pilot qualifications, administering professional exams and periodic tests required for pilots, aircraft certification, and so on. The government has never provided any explanations for these delays, and it's a situation that is holding back our recovery.

Even though companies have been announcing equipment purchases, none of it can be used until it's been approved, and included in the company's operating certificate.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Thank you very much, Mr. Massé and Mr. McKenna.

Next, we have Mr. Bachrach.

The floors is yours. You have six minutes.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'd like to begin by thanking all our witnesses for their presentations. Obviously, this is a matter of great interest to the committee.

I'd like to start my questioning with Ms. Hunka of Calgary International Airport.

Ms. Hunka, you mentioned the idea of shared responsibility, and I think I heard you say that all partners should do their part. I think this speaks to one of the things we saw during the pandemic, which was the need for accountability. I don't ask this as a trap or as a trick question, but I'm very curious, because we've had a chance as members of the committee to talk to all the different partners in the airport ecosystem.

When we talk about the challenges that were experienced, often we hear that different partners put the onus on other partners. The people who are at the end of the line when it comes to the challenges we saw are, first of all, air passengers who were sleeping on the floors of our airports and, second, workers at the airports who were working under some incredibly challenging conditions.

There are all sorts of different moving parts here. Obviously, it's a complex situation. You have security screening, airports that maintain the infrastructure, and airlines that fly the planes. However, when things fall apart, I think what the air passenger is looking for is some accountability.

How do we create an accountability system? Right now, the CTA has a backlog of 24,000 complaints from air passengers who suffered delays and cancellations. That's just the tip of the iceberg, because those are the folks who managed to get through the complex process of filing an online complaint.

I'd like you to speak about how we create an accountability system so that air passengers are taken care of and don't bear the brunt when we see challenges like the ones we've seen over the past several months.

[Carmelle Hunka]

Thank you very much for that question.

I'm not surprised when we talk about the fact that the experience involves all partners doing their part. It's a joint accountability that we all have together. To the comments that have been made, whether it's an issue at CATSA or an issue at CBSA, for us as the airports, it's a question that comes up.

As the airport, we look at our role as being the facilitator to bring all these partners together for the conversation to make sure that we can provide the service that we need to for the passenger. Going into the summer, we had an event at the Calgary airport. We brought all of CATSA, CBSA, USCBP and PHAC together with our media partners, and we talked about what travel would mean and look like, and what passengers could expect at the airports.

Our investment in YYC Express and virtual queuing demonstrates our commitment to making things work better for our partners. We also need our partners to have good conversations with us and to be open and transparent about some of the information.

One challenge we have with CATSA is that the wait times that CATSA provides and delivers to the public aren't based on the end of the line. They're based on where CATSA starts monitoring and screening, and that's not as transparent. We need that transparency.

We recognize that we're an ecosystem and that it's our joint reputation, but we need the support of our partners at the airport, and the airport will then provide our support back to those partners.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Ms. Hunka, putting yourself in the shoes of a passenger, where does the buck stop? The passenger is just trying to get where they need to go. They've paid a bunch of money, and now they're sleeping on the floor of the airport at two in the morning.

There are all these different partners, as you characterized them. Does the buck stop with the minister? Who does it stop with? I'm just trying to understand who's accountable when things go poorly.

[Carmelle Hunka]

It's very important to us as the airport authority to provide the best experience for our guests, so we invest in making that experience the best, but we need the support of the government. We do need the Minister of Transport to be participating, to be investing in the infrastructure, and to be investing in those partners and in those services—investing in better technology to move passengers through CATSA and through the screening points, and not having to take every single item out of your bag in order to proceed. Those are some of the things we would ask for that would create a situation in which the passenger would have that seamless experience.

There are many conversations and many committees. I think what we need to see at this point is some investment in better technologies and in these partnerships so that we can deliver the best experience to the guest.

You're absolutely right; if I'm sleeping on the floor, I'm sending that social media message or taking that picture at the airport. It's our reputation, as airports, that is on the line, and that's why it's so important for us to be having these conversations with government, because we need the support of the government in order to invest.

We are a captive revenue industry. We don't have multiple revenue streams that we can draw from, and we need that support. When we're providing our rent payments and not receiving that investment back in return, that challenges us in our ability to support and go forward.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Mr. Chair, how am I doing timewise?

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

You have 20 seconds left.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Oh, boy. I wanted to ask Mr. Boudreau about living wages and subpar wages, but maybe I'll wait until the next round.

I'll yield my time back to you, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Thank you very much, Mr. Bachrach.

Mr. Jeneroux, the floor is yours. You have five minutes.

[Matt Jeneroux, Conservative, Edmonton Riverbend, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

The Montreal airport was ranked second worst in the world for flight delays, with 47.8% being delayed. Vancouver airport was placed 10th worst, with over a third of the flights delayed.

Maybe I'll start with you, Mr. Boudreau.

We had testimony in June that said the mask mandate, the vaccine mandate, the mandatory tracing and the ArriveCAN app were factors in terms of these delays. Would you agree?

[Trevor Boudreau]

That was not YVR's experience, Mr. Jeneroux. Our experience was that we had delays that were results of knock-on impacts from other parts of the aviation sector, not just in Canada but around the world. That was our experience.

[Matt Jeneroux, Conservative, Edmonton Riverbend, AB]

I remember media stories about your particular airport, Mr. Boudreau, where there were delays on the international side, some existing for days, with people missing their flights. What contributed to those delays, then?

[Trevor Boudreau]

Mr. Jeneroux, I'd ask you to be a bit more specific. I'm not quite sure which instance you're talking about.

[Matt Jeneroux, Conservative, Edmonton Riverbend, AB]

About a month ago, there were people in the international area waiting to go up to Alaska, waiting to go to Detroit. Global News was on your location filming and wondering why there were delays in your airport. A number of the individuals indicated that vaccines, tracing and the ArriveCAN app were part of the problem. You're saying that they weren't right, that it was something else.

[Trevor Boudreau]

Mr. Jeneroux, I think you're speaking about the Sunday in August when we experienced some delays with CATSA screening when they had a bit of a labour shortage. They had a large volume of workers who had unexpectedly booked the day off. That caused a pretty significant disruption here at YVR. It lasted a day and was cleared as quickly as possible.

You mentioned transborder departing traffic. We are still seeing some delays with our partners at USCBP because of their new simplified arrivals process, which, while simple, is creating some growing pains there as they deploy that new process. We're working with them on that. We're also working with them to increase CBP staffing levels back up to 2019 levels, which we believe will continue to support and help passengers.

CATSA has remained stable since August, and we have not experienced the issues that we had in August.