Transport Committee on Oct. 17th, 2022

[Angelo Iacono, Liberal, Alfred-Pellan, QC]

Thank you.

My last question is for Mr. Millian.

Mr. Millian, how similar are the situations in Canada and the United States with respect to labour shortages in the transportation sector?

[Michael Millian]

Thank you for the question. I don't have the exact numbers in front of me on the U.S. shortage, but I believe the last numbers they put out indicated that their shortage was around 300,000 drivers. Now, keep in mind that we have 30,000 drivers and they have, I believe, a bit over three million drivers, but yes, they're seeing the same types of shortages for the truck driving community and industry down there that we are seeing up here.

[Angelo Iacono, Liberal, Alfred-Pellan, QC]

Thank you.

Would any other witnesses like to comment?

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Go ahead, Ms. Splinter.

[Angela Splinter]

It's an interesting question. It is a larger shortage simply in terms of scale in the United States. What we've seen is that shortages in the United States are different, in that turnover seems to be an acceptable business practice in the U.S., whereas it isn't in Canada. They simply accept it as a cost of doing business, which I think has other implications.

Again, we have employers who are looking to treat their workers well, and they want to reduce turnover, so I think we have some opportunities to work with them.

[Angelo Iacono, Liberal, Alfred-Pellan, QC]

Thank you.

I have no further questions, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Thank you very much, Mr. Iacono.

Next we have Mr. Lewis.

Mr. Lewis, the floor is yours. Welcome to committee for the first time. You have five minutes.

[Chris Lewis, Conservative, Essex, ON]

Thank you very much, Chair.

To the rest of my committee colleagues here, I'm excited to be here.

I'm listening with great interest this afternoon. I was on the international trade committee previous to this. Ironically, we just finished a study on ArriveCAN and we were in the middle of a study on shipping containers, or the lack thereof. I visited Taiwan last week with Mr. Iacono, and we visited the port of Taipei. I bring that up because all of these various things tie back into one thing and one thing only, and that is labour and skilled trades. Of course, since I am shadow minister for labour, now you really have my attention. I know we have a lot of work to do on that side.

The first question I have is, I suppose, for Ms. Splinter.

How long does it take to get somebody trained, such that they are able to drive anywhere in Canada, including in the Rockies, for example?

[Angela Splinter]

Well, it varies. For one thing, entry-level training has different requirements in each province, but on average, as Mike mentioned, to get your commercial driver's licence, it's around 100 to 110 hours.

Then there's an onboarding program. Once that individual has their commercial driver's licence, then each employer has their own onboarding finishing program, which is endorsed by whichever insurer they're using. Those vary from four weeks to six weeks, and some of them even go for as long as three months. What we want to do is get some consistency around that occupational-level training.

When I say those times vary, we also need to keep in mind that there are some fleets that do no onboarding or finishing programs. They allow an individual with a commercial driver's licence to get working, and that's obviously a concern. This is why we want to look at getting consistency on what that occupational-level training could look like, so that it's the same across the board and insurance buys into it.

The other factor I will mention is that this onboarding varies from company to company, so if you work at one company and you've done their finishing and onboarding program, when you move to another company, you are back at square one. That's the other concern, because that has a direct impact on productivity.

[Chris Lewis, Conservative, Essex, ON]

Thank you for that answer. I guess what you're telling me is there is no standard.

[Angela Splinter]

That's right.

[Chris Lewis, Conservative, Essex, ON]

There is no Canadian standard. If there were a standard, are there enough schools to train these folks?

[Angela Splinter]

Yes.

[Chris Lewis, Conservative, Essex, ON]

There are enough.

[Angela Splinter]

There are training schools. Some are better than others, but what we see a lot of right now is that trucking companies are partnering specifically with certain training schools or they have developed their own in-house training programs. They develop their own programs. They train in-house.

[Chris Lewis, Conservative, Essex, ON]

Thank you, Ms. Splinter.

Mr. Chair, through you to Mr. Julien, do unions serve a purpose in recruiting and maintaining sufficient levels of employment? How can a union assist an employer in seeing they do not go short-staffed?

[Luc Julien]

The key factor that enables unions to provide employers with guidance is the fact that we know what people need.

Of course, there is the financial aspect, but there is also the quality of life aspect. Unions are often mobilized when people have problems in their workplace. So if we work together—employers and unions—to improve not only benefits, but also the onboarding of new employees, training, scheduling and vacation time, for example, that will not only attract new people, but also help retain them over time.

[Chris Lewis, Conservative, Essex, ON]

Thank you very much, Mr. Julien.

Through you, Mr. Chair, to Mr. Millian—I have 55 seconds left, sir—what can be done in terms of youth recruitment into the transportation industry? Would engaging more young Canadians be sufficient for acquiring labour? We have heard that women are a group we should be targeting. Are there other groups we should be targeting as well?

You have 35 seconds.

[Michael Millian]

Thank you for the question.

What can be done for youth is to make sure they understand that there's a viable career path there and that they're actually going to be able to get a job when they get through. A lot of them right now, even if they know there's a path, don't go through the training at 18 years old because they know it's unlikely that they're going to be hired.

On other groups we can access in addition to women, who represent only 3% of our workforce, indigenous groups and other under-represented groups in our industry are certainly ones that we need to reach out to and encourage to get into this industry.

[Chris Lewis, Conservative, Essex, ON]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Thank you very much, Mr. Lewis.

Next we have Mr. Rogers. Mr. Rogers, the floor is yours. You have five minutes.

[Churence Rogers, Liberal, Bonavista—Burin—Trinity, NL]

Thank you, Chair.

Welcome to all our guests today. I commented to them when they entered the room that it's nice to see people in person again. It's been a long time since we've seen this many guests sitting at the end of the table. Welcome, all.

I want to focus on trucking and truckers because, as you know, of course, in Newfoundland and Labrador we have no trains on the island and are surrounded by water, so we depend heavily on the boating industry, the airline industry and on the trucking industry to deliver. I know that during the first year of the pandemic, for example, people realized the value that they bring in terms of the supply of groceries to the island and medical supplies and on and on. That certainly elevated the profile and the importance of truckers in the province, and people appreciated the extra effort they put in to get things done.

Considering the shortages we have—30,000 plus—how is industry promoting careers in these fields? What could they be doing better?

I'll go to Mrs. Splinter and then maybe to Mr. Millian.

[Angela Splinter]

Thank you.

We actually did the research on this. We did research on what millennials think of our industry and what would attract them to our industry. What we learned through that research is that there is a pool of workers who are interested in working in trucking and logistics and we just need to reach them better.

We need to reach them where they're most comfortable: on social media. The Canadian Trucking Alliance is embarking on an image campaign to address those issues by reaching them in those places and highlighting the themes that we know will resonate with them by promoting those positions that could offer more work-life balance and freedom on the road and addressing up front some of the concerns around our environmental impact. We're really working to better connect with them. That is one example.

As I mentioned earlier in terms of bringing them in, we also know that the cost of training is a barrier. As we learned through that research, we're losing that pool of young workers who would be interested in our industry to other industries like construction and like-minded occupations, because they could start working tomorrow in construction and they wouldn't have the barrier of the training costs that our industry poses.

In terms of women, we're embarking on new research to better identify how we can bring in more women. I did present that one example of women who were coming in as courier drivers. We have seen a large courier company adopt that model. It's a small number of women they're bringing in as truck drivers, but it's something that's working. I think we need to continue to look at these approaches.

The other one I will mention with young people and women is that we need to be upfront and address the myth that trucks will be driving themselves. Clearly, they're not driving themselves. We need to address that and ensure everyone is aware that this is a viable occupation for the next long time. I can't say exactly how much, because technology may come in, of course, but it certainly is a viable occupation over the longer term.

[Churence Rogers, Liberal, Bonavista—Burin—Trinity, NL]

Thanks so much. You've answered a number of my questions.

Mr. Millian, do you want to comment on that?

[Michael Millian]

Yes, thanks.

I won't repeat that in the interest of—

I'm getting a big echo here. Is everybody else getting that, or is it just me?