Transport Committee on Oct. 17th, 2022

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Mr. Rogers, can you shut your microphone off, please? Maybe that will solve the problem.

Mr. Millian, do you want to try again to see if the echo is still there?

[Michael Millian]

Yes, that's much better. That's perfect.

I won't repeat what Angela said, in the interest of time. I agree with everything she said.

There are a couple of things I believe we need government to do. For years there's been a big concern in this industry that there are not enough adequate, safe and secure parking facilities for truck drivers going across the country. This is an issue of safety for them because they can't find the places to pull over and properly get rest. The government needs to work together on providing parking facility infrastructure so drivers can get proper rest.

What can we, as an industry, do? We need to get out to the schools earlier. We can't start going to the schools when students are 17 or 18 years old, because in a lot of cases they may have already chosen a career path. We need to start getting out into the elementary schools and into the first part of high school and let the kids know a little earlier what the positives are and what the career path is. Then those conversations can happen with their parents at home. That's one thing we can do.

As an industry, we have to start to change our pay structure. We have to start paying more people by the hour and remove the pay by percentage and by mile or kilometre. I think having more consistent pay models for whichever industry someone is in would help us a lot in attracting new people.

Angela mentioned the funding. We certainly need that. On the autonomous feature, I fully agree with her. I think we need to use the autonomous feature to help recruit the younger generation. I don't like to call it “autonomous”; I like to call it “driver-assisted”. The younger generation is excited by technology. They may not want to stare out a windshield for ten hours a day, but if they know that the vehicle is being more automated and they're there more as a pilot on a plane—not now but down the road—and that their job is going to involve other tasks, that may make them more excited about getting into the industry. That's something I believe we have to start promoting and putting out there more often.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Thank you very much, Mr. Rogers. Thank you, Mr. Millian.

Next we have Mr. Barsalou-Duval.

Mr. Barsalou-Duval, you have two and a half minutes.

[Xavier Barsalou-Duval, Bloc, Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Julien, I heard you talk a lot earlier about how the people you represent were under pressure or found that they had a heavy workload, which diminished their quality of life. You were saying that it made that kind of job less attractive.

Are there any new technologies that would make it easier for these people to do their jobs and thereby help keep them around longer?

[Luc Julien]

Many technologies have already been added to airports, such as body scanners. However, the fact remains that the final check is done by humans putting questions to other humans. So while technology can make the job of screening officers easier, I don't think it can replace them, because it's all about judgment.

[Xavier Barsalou-Duval, Bloc, Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC]

I will ask Ms. Splinter the same question.

Do you think technological improvements could make life easier for workers in the trucking industry?

[Angela Splinter]

Absolutely. It already is. As Mike mentioned, we are seeing more driver-assist technology. We're seeing touchless technologies that came into play during COVID, and they are constantly improving. Anything that makes their job easier and makes the occupation and the truck driver more productive benefits all of us.

[Xavier Barsalou-Duval, Bloc, Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC]

Some jobs involve a specific task, but there are also so many related tasks that people end up wasting time, not spending it on their primary task. Truck drivers, for example, could spend more time driving than doing other tasks.

Are there examples of such tasks that affect them?

In this case, perhaps Mr. Millian would be best suited to answer.

[Michael Millian]

Distracted driving is an issue in society. I think we're all aware of that. Distracted driving is also going to be an issue in the trucking industry.

These are professional drivers. They are trained better and trained to understand the risks, but truck drivers are part of society. If we thought that truck drivers weren't out there driving distracted from time to time as well, I think we'd be mistaken.

I don't think it's as prevalent as it is with car drivers, but it's still an issue. There are technologies that can help with that. There are cameras that can face forward and inward, which only activate when there are issues, but they can help spot when a driver's tasks are not focused on the road. It is very difficult when you're driving 10 hours a day—staring out a windshield, driving down a road—to stay focused. I think all of us who drive a car can understand that. There definitely are technologies we can use.

That is a task. The driver's primary task is driving, and it's one that likely allows for the most distraction because of the nature of the job.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Thank you very much, Mr. Millian. Unfortunately, we're out of time.

Mr. Bachrach, you have two and a half minutes. The floor is yours.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

To conclude my questions, Mr. Julien, we're in October and the minister says everything is heading in the right direction, but the conditions you describe still haven't been adequately dealt with. How do the next six months or a year look, in your opinion, if the issues you've raised aren't addressed?

[Luc Julien]

In my opinion, if we don't change course in the negotiations on the working conditions of all screening officers in Canada, we will almost certainly go through the same scenario as last summer, as the conditions are the same. There was a reason for the labour shortage that we experienced last summer. It remains the same today and, if nothing changes, it will remain the same over the coming months.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Mr. Chair, I'm going to switch gears very quickly as we conclude the meeting and ask a question of the two witnesses representing the trucking industry.

At our previous meeting, we had a bunch of witnesses from your industry talking about something they called “Driver Inc.”, whereby trucking companies compel new drivers to form their own little corporations. This phenomenon is actually driving down and eroding the attractiveness of the occupation.

This isn't something that you addressed in your presentations or in your answers to the questions. Do you share the concern around this attempt, shall we call it, by the companies to off-load some of their responsibilities around compensation and benefits?

[Angela Splinter]

Yes, absolutely. We need to end Driver Inc. It is a serious concern within our industry.

I believe you've already heard about that and some of the implications it has for legitimate trucking companies. What I would add is that I think the committee members should take note of the billions of dollars of tax revenue that are lost because there's no tax being paid.

Additionally, the rights of these workers are in jeopardy. They are not in safe work environments. They have no insurance and they have no access to any social programs because they have not paid into them, and from an HR perspective, I think that is also very concerning.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Thank you, Ms. Splinter.

I think Mr. Millian wanted to weigh in very briefly.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

You have 15 seconds, Mr. Millian, please.

[Michael Millian]

I 100% agree. It's a massive issue. They prey on people who really don't have a lot of understanding about the tax implications that they're getting into, the fact that they don't have vacation time, and that if they get hurt, there's no unemployment insurance.

Also, these companies charge lower rates because they're not compliant, and they make it harder for the compliant industry to compete and stay in business. It puts a terrible stain on the image of our industry.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Thank you, Mr. Millian. Thank you, Mr. Bachrach.

Next we have Mr. Strahl. Mr. Strahl, the floor is yours for five minutes.

[Mark Strahl, Conservative, Chilliwack—Hope, BC]

Thank you very much.

I want to go back to the free and secure trade issue, the FAST express issue that was raised by Mr. Millian. I was just on the CBSA website, and it says:

NEXUS and FAST interviews have resumed at enrolment centres in the U.S. Canadian NEXUS and FAST enrolment centres remain closed. All applicants, including Canadian citizens and Permanent Residents, wishing to schedule interviews can do so at their nearest U.S. enrolment centre through the Trusted Traveller portal.

We are past the time when these enrolment centres should be up and running.

Mr. Millian and Ms. Splinter, would you agree with the Conservative recommendation that the government order those staff back to work in person so that they can conduct those interviews and serve the public in Canada and not force them to head to the U.S. enrolment centres to do that job?

[Michael Millian]

Yes, but there's one thing I want to clarify, though, just so we're aware. The ones on the Canadian side of the border are U.S. officers who come over here and do those interviews, so the issue really is the Canadian government and the U.S. government and trying to figure out some sort of reason to get the U.S. officers back here.

At the land border, for a Canadian crossing into the U.S., they actually do their interviews on the U.S. side of the border. For an American coming into Canada, they do their interviews on the Canadian side of the border, with their officers being over here. On that, there's been some political tie-up up top that is preventing this from happening in our country.

[Mark Strahl, Conservative, Chilliwack—Hope, BC]

Okay.

Ms. Splinter, do you have the same issue and the same concern with that program?

[Angela Splinter]

In the work we do, I'm not involved on border issues. The only thing I would add is simply that anything that can help alleviate the issues and the bottlenecks is needed.

[Mark Strahl, Conservative, Chilliwack—Hope, BC]

I want to go to our agricultural folks, who have been sitting patiently there for a long time.

I was told that CP Rail only met 61% of hopper car commitments the week before Thanksgiving. Was that a labour issue? It certainly wasn't a weather issue in my neck of the woods. Have you had an explanation as to why that number has reduced, and what worries does that number give you, given that the weather has been stable and warmer than average, certainly in British Columbia? What are you hearing about that, and are you concerned about it?

We've heard that 12 labour contracts are expiring—eight of them by the end of the year, I understand. Could you talk about that? That number was quite a bit lower than the week before, and I wonder if there was a labour component to it.

[Dave Carey]

I'll start and then ask Steve weigh in.

CP moves roughly 50% of all grain from the Prairies to the port of Vancouver. October, November and December are big months for moving grain, so that is certainly a concerning signal.

I'll ask Steve if he has any more details as to the causes, because there was no labour issue or inclement weather, to my knowledge.

[Steve Pratte]

That's right. I would say that for those of us in the industry who watch and monitor this and analyze it, there's no one specific thing that can be pointed to. The now four weeks of kind of suboptimal performance is leaving analysts scratching our heads as to why, but certainly, as you noted, we've had four weeks now of some disappointing service from CP. As we are in that peak movement period, it is starting to become troubling and is getting more people's attention.