Transport Committee on Oct. 31st, 2022

[Leslyn Lewis, Conservative, Haldimand—Norfolk, ON]

You don't have any specific aspects of travel that you believe would benefit from digitization.

[Jeff Morrison]

I think there are various points along the travel experience that could benefit. Clearly, baggage handling, although still requiring the human capacity, is something that we've seen has benefited from technology. Again, customs and security is something that we have seen benefit. There could be more done in that.

We're especially seeing currently a dispute with the United States on NEXUS. One of the easy fixes that we have proposed is the fact that virtual meetings could be held to replace in-person meetings. Again, it's another use for technology to improve things.

There are different points along that ecosystem. Again, we can talk further about that. It absolutely has a purpose.

[Leslyn Lewis, Conservative, Haldimand—Norfolk, ON]

Is the ArriveCAN app somewhat similar to NEXUS? Would it take on that function? Are you aware of that?

[Jeff Morrison]

ArriveCAN now is being used, I believe, in four Canadian airports for essentially customs and border services.

I recently came back from an international trip and used ArriveCAN voluntarily. It did help to accelerate my processing through the customs hall.

NEXUS is complementary. It, too, has benefited a great number of Canadians. We really hope that the American and Canadian governments can work together to make sure that the current disputes are resolved. There's now currently a backlog of over 350,000. They absolutely can work in tandem, and should. Until we get this problem with NEXUS resolved, we're not really at a point of discussing how the two can interact.

[Leslyn Lewis, Conservative, Haldimand—Norfolk, ON]

Thank you.

My next question is for Mr. Girard.

COVID-19 and the reduced demand on air travel clearly had a severe impact on your operations and revenues. We heard from Mr. Morrison. He testified about the wage subsidy, and that it was a lifeline.

What happens if there's a resurgence of COVID? It seems imperative that postpandemic air travel must continue undisrupted. How would you assess NavCan's operational buffer if there were to be a resurgence of COVID?

[Ben Girard]

That's really hard to say. You're asking me to speculate a lot here. It all depends on when it happens and it all depends on how much time we have to recover.

I think we've proven over the years, with the current model we have, that we have a lot of resilience in terms of how we answer to these crises. It's not a matter of if but a matter of when this is going to reoccur, because we all know that in the aviation business, every 10 years or so something happens that we have to recover from.

I believe Nav Canada is very well positioned to be very resilient in these cases. We've proven that over and over again over the years.

[Leslyn Lewis, Conservative, Haldimand—Norfolk, ON]

I'm really glad to hear about that resiliency.

My question was more about helping the industry and making sure we can learn from the past lessons. As you said, the potential is there that it will happen again. What happens if we impose those same mandates and that same level of restriction? What would the impact be on the industry in terms of resiliency?

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Please give a 10-second response.

[Ben Girard]

Yes.

The impact would definitely not be good in the sense that our revenues would diminish and we would have to access money in other ways. We have a very—

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

We have to end it there, unfortunately, Monsieur Girard.

Thank you very much, Dr. Lewis, for your questioning.

Ms. Koutrakis, you have the floor for five minutes.

[Annie Koutrakis, Liberal, Vimy, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to all our witnesses for appearing at our committee this afternoon.

My first question is for Mr. Roberts from Pascan.

In your testimony earlier, you said that regional aviation is at risk, and that it needs help ASAP. I'm curious to know whether your company took advantage of the wage subsidy or any of the support programs that the government put forth.

[Julian Roberts]

Absolutely. It saved my business.

[Annie Koutrakis, Liberal, Vimy, QC]

Were you able to maintain your employees, or were some employees let go and not rehired? I'm curious to know the number of employees you had prepandemic and what you're at right now.

[Julian Roberts]

Prepandemic, we were at probably about 140. Today we're at 200.

[Annie Koutrakis, Liberal, Vimy, QC]

Great.

If you haven't already done so, can you suggest some specific recommendations that you would like to see this committee make in its report? You gave compelling testimony before us. I would be curious to hear, and would like to give you the opportunity to elaborate on, what you would like to see specifically included in this report.

[Julian Roberts]

I really appreciate that.

We have, as you know, a pilot shortage. It's not a surprise. It's been there for a long time. It's not going away. We're able to train new pilots. The problem we're having is getting those pilots qualified with enough hours to fly the main line. We're unable to replace the number of qualified pilots we're losing to the bigger carriers. Air Canada or WestJet can come in and hire our pilots. Our pilots will give us two weeks' notice. It takes me three months to train and replace that pilot.

The problem we're seeing is that the pool of those pilots to replace the experienced pilots is drying up. The barrel is almost empty. I don't know how we're going to find a way to replace those pilots going forward. If we're going to be missing 58,000 professionals in the next five years, then I don't know where they're going to come from. I really don't have any solution.

[Annie Koutrakis, Liberal, Vimy, QC]

Thank you for that.

My next question is for Ms. Tiessen.

You spoke about wages and compensation and employers perhaps not offering the work experience they should be offering to their employees. Perhaps this might help Mr. Roberts as well. Maybe together, with the unions and the employers.... There are some work things that need to be done together.

Ms. Tiessen, besides enhanced wages and compensation, what other things can be done to attract and retain workers? What kind of collaborative work has your union membership done with employers to address the labour shortages? Are you working collaboratively? Are you exchanging ideas?

[Kaylie Tiessen]

That's a great question.

We are working collaboratively wherever we can. Ms. Dias would have very specific examples of exactly where we're working collaboratively with employers to fill positions.

A few that come to mind, for me, would be some of the baggage handlers and other groups we've worked with to make sure we're raising wages for workers. I'm specifically thinking about raising wages, working conditions and fair scheduling practices. Also, when new technology is being implemented, how do we make sure workers are consulted ahead of time? Also, when they are working with new technology, are employers still treating workers like humans, like people who are valuable to the business? We have agreements across all sectors, not just in aviation, where we specifically say that, when new technology is introduced, the union has to be consulted and there is a committee of workers who work with employers to implement that kind of technology.

If there are other examples, we'll get them together for you and send them off.

[Annie Koutrakis, Liberal, Vimy, QC]

Thank you.

Mr. Chair, through you, a number of our witnesses here this afternoon touched on the issue of immigration. On April 4, 2022, the Minister of Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship announced new measures to address Canada's labour shortages. These measures included a temporary policy that would allow recent international graduates with expiring temporary status to stay in Canada longer.

I'm wondering if our witnesses feel the extension of a temporary policy allowing visitors to the country to apply for a work permit would be a solution. If not, what kind of changes to our immigration policies do they see or recommend, in order to help fill that gap?

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

You have 20 seconds for your response.

[Jeff Morrison]

First of all, on the recognition of foreign credentials, this was discussed by, I believe, Mr. McKenna and Mr. Donald.

They may not be exactly the same as Canadian requirements through Transport Canada, but some form of more efficient recognition of foreign credentials would be helpful to ensure a stable supply of new immigrants.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Thank you very much, Mr. Morrison.

Thank you, Ms. Koutrakis.

We have Mr. Strahl next.

You have five minutes.

[Mark Strahl, Conservative, Chilliwack—Hope, BC]

Thank you.

I will follow up on that line of questioning.

The minister can announce that he's willing to allow people to come into the country or stay in the country. Mr. Donald, did I hear you correctly when you said that 99% of foreign AMEs are denied by Transport Canada when they apply to have their credentials recognized? Did I hear that number correctly?

[Robert Donald]

You did. That was in a report published about two years ago by CAMAQ, which is the Quebec sector council for the aerospace industry.

[Mark Strahl, Conservative, Chilliwack—Hope, BC]

Having people come in but not letting them work in the sector is obviously not going to provide much of a solution.

I was interested to note, in comparing that testimony of yours.... Ninety-nine per cent of foreign-trained AMEs are rejected. Mr. Roberts referenced an EB-2 program in the United States that takes anyone and everyone who has been trained up to a certain level with no questions asked, and will bring them into the U.S. to work as pilots.

What can be done? Obviously, Transport Canada is the barrier in getting AMEs recognized. What needs to change there? How can we work on equivalencies among similarly skilled nations, if we can call it that? We do it in other sectors.

Have you heard whether Transport Canada even sees this as a problem? Are they working with the U.S. FAA? The U.K. and EU were referenced. What are we doing to ensure that we recognize equivalencies and that this problem of essentially banning everyone—99%—from working gets solved?

That question is for Mr. Donald.

Is there a solution there? Is Transport Canada working to improve this, or, from your perspective, are they satisfied with that 1% acceptance rate?