Transport Committee on Nov. 14th, 2022

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

I call this meeting to order.

Welcome to meeting No. 38 of the Standing Committee on Transport, Infrastructure and Communities.

Pursuant to Standing Order 108(2) and the motion adopted by the committee on Thursday, February 3, 2022, the committee is meeting to study the impact of commercial shipping on shoreline erosion.

Today's meeting is taking place in a hybrid format, pursuant to the House order of November 25, 2021. Members are attending in person in the room and remotely using the Zoom application.

Members of the committee, I'm going to introduce the witnesses we are receiving today.

First of all, we have Roy Grégoire, a resident of Saint-Ignace-de-Loyola, who is appearing as an individual.

We also have representatives of the Comité pour la protection des berges du Saint-Laurent: Micheline Lagarde, chair, and Carine Durocher, vice-chair.

Then from the Great Lakes and St. Lawrence Cities Initiative, we have Maud Allaire, mayor of the City of Contrecœur and member of the initiative, and Phillipe Murphy‑Rhéaume, director of Canadian policy.

We also have with us Jean‑Luc Barthe, mayor of the Municipality of Saint-Ignace-de-Loyola.

[Chris Lewis, Conservative, Essex, ON]

Mr. Chair, I have a point of order.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

I'm being told there is no interpretation, so we will wait.

I will continue since it seems to be back.

Lastly, from the Université Laval, we have Patrick Lajeunesse, professor, and Jean‑François Bernier, research assistant.

We will begin by hearing the opening remarks of the representatives of the Comité pour la protection des berges du Saint-Laurent.

Ms. Lagarde, you have the floor for five minutes.

[Micheline Lagarde, Chair, Comité pour la protection des berges du Saint-Laurent]

Good afternoon, members of the Standing Committee on Transport, Infrastructure and Communities.

My name is Micheline Lagarde, and I am the chair of the Comité pour la protection des berges du Saint-Laurent. Carine Durocher is our vice-chair. Our committee is made up of volunteer members.

We are here today to inform you about the disaster we are currently witnessing. Commercial shipping is everywhere in the municipalities of Varennes, Verchères and Contrecœur. More than 2,000 ships a year pass through this river corridor, which extends, approximately 600 metres or less from the shoreline, over nearly 25 kilometres.

Shoreline erosion has been causing damage for a long time, particularly in this area, and is largely the result of ongoing construction and dredging of the shipping channel, year-round shipping traffic and wave action caused by ships and boats. Many studies clearly point the finger at wave action. References to those studies are provided in the brief we have submitted to you.

The government at first clearly understood the need to protect the shorelines and built protective works, but, in 1997, as part of its effort to fight the deficit, it terminated the assistance it had been providing, leaving citizens without the necessary resources. Erosion has only worsened over time and resulted in dangerous situations, including overhanging walls, collapsing works and eroded land, leaving steep slopes that are deteriorating at an increasing pace.

I am speaking here about our experience, about what we are observing locally, what we can see with our own eyes. On the islands in the area, we also see much more serious erosion on the banks exposed to commercial shipping.

We acknowledge that commercial shipping is a very important economic lever and that there is a general wish to expand that economy and make it more competitive internationally. However, as it grows by making billions of dollars in profits, citizens are left to their own devices and must suffer the economic and environmental consequences of this industry, which include the loss of their life savings and the psychological and financial stress that undermines the health of citizens who are facing a very real threat.

The government has a responsibility to protect its citizens and must allocate some of those profits to protect the shorelines. It is inconceivable that citizens should be responsible for ensuring that the shorelines of the St. Lawrence River survive without the government's full support.

Marine transport must go green as soon as possible. We acknowledge that the lower voluntary speed limit that has gone into effect is a positive factor, but that doesn't prevent the wakes and waves from relentlessly continuing to destroy the shorelines. The government is responsible for transport and its impact and must address both.

Since shipping is definitely causing erosion, at a time when water is an increasingly critical issue and the climate is warming, there is an urgent need for action.

By caring for the shorelines, we also preserve the river. However, if the government feels that this is a complex issue and that it has neither the money nor any programs to offer, and if it shirks its responsibility and refuses to act, how can citizens possibly solve these problems?

The shorelines aren't a quilt that can be pieced back together. They form a whole. If the river is a jewel, then the shorelines are its jewel box, and we must take care of them.

The artificialization of the shorelines is a challenge for the ecology of our landscape. The shorelines are losing their ability to function as a biological corridor; they can no longer support exchanges between land and water and thus are becoming inhospitable to human beings.

We ask that the Standing Committee on Transport, Infrastructure and Communities immediately recommend that a federal program be introduced to protect the shorelines affected by marine transport on the St. Lawrence River. That program is essential to the harmonious coexistence of marine transport, wildlife habitat and riparian communities.

This kind of program is essential for the Varennes, Verchères and Contrecœur region, which is particularly hard hit by the impact of shoreline erosion as a result of the narrowness of the corridor in that section of the river.

Innovative and sustainable solutions are beyond the reach of ordinary citizens and absolutely require the assistance of experts.

At a time when urgent action is needed to address the impact of shipping on the environment, shorelines, the river and biodiversity, our committee believes that consideration should be given to an intergovernmental and interdepartmental solution.

In closing, we want to thank the members of the Standing Committee on Transport, Infrastructure and Communities for this opportunity to express our views. We hope that solutions to protect the shorelines will be introduced very soon because erosion is accelerating at an alarming rate. We would also like to be involved in selecting solutions.

Thank you for your attention.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Thank you very much, Ms. Lagarde.

We will now hear from the Great Lakes and St. Lawrence Cities Initiative.

You have five minutes for your presentation.

[Phillipe Murphy-Rhéaume, Director of Canadian Policy, Great Lakes and St. Lawrence Cities Initiative]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

We would first like to thank the members of the standing committee for receiving us today on this important study.

For our opening statement, I will be sharing my time with the mayor of Contrecoeur, Ms. Maud Allaire.

To begin, for those of you who are not familiar with the Great Lakes and St. Lawrence Cities Initiative, we are a binational coalition of more than 170 mayors across Ontario, Quebec and the eight Great Lakes states. We work to advance the socio-economic and environmental health of cities across the Great Lakes and St. Lawrence River basin.

If there's one issue that unites our members from Leamington to Quebec City, it is the concern around shoreline resilience, particularly when it comes to erosion. We hope that commitments by the federal government, like a strengthened $1-billion freshwater action plan and a well-funded national adaptation strategy, will lead to decisive action to counter shoreline erosion across the Canadian Great Lakes and St. Lawrence River basin.

We're pleased to work with members like the City of Contrecoeur to raise the profile of this issue and advocate for federal action.

I'll now pass it on to my colleague, Mayor Maud Allaire, to complete our opening statement.

The floor is yours, Madam Mayor.

[Maud Allaire, Mayor, City of Contrecoeur, Member, Cities Initiative, Great Lakes and St. Lawrence Cities Initiative]

Good afternoon.

First of all, my colleague and I would also like to thank the members of the committee for this invitation to appear before you. And, naturally, greetings as well to the vice-chair, who is the member for the riding that is home to the City of Contrecœur, of which I am the mayor.

Erosion has many consequences for our municipalities, including deterioration of our citizens' living environment, compromised public infrastructure and the loss of natural ecosystems essential to our communities' resilience to climate change.

In view of this problem, the municipalities have a responsibility to mobilize in the interest of their citizens. This is simultaneously a public safety, environmental and quality-of-life issue, and, despite the fact that we have limited resources with which to address erosion, the burden of deciding what measures should be taken to solve the problem falls to the municipalities.

In the case of Contrecœur, Varennes and Verchères, that burden represents, in real terms, investments of at least $35 million just to stabilize our shorelines. And the situation is the same all along the St. Lawrence. I'm thinking, for example, of Varennes, which loses one metre of land in Parc de la Commune every year and had to resort to emergency works a few weeks ago to avoid losing a bicycle path.

As regards causes, erosion is above all a natural phenomenon greatly amplified by climate change and an increase in the number of extreme weather events, all of which puts significant pressure on our shorelines. I'm thinking, for example, of freeze-thaw cycles, storms and heavy rains.

In addition, the erosion protection infrastructure that the federal government built from the 1950s to the 1970s is deteriorating at an alarming rate. At this stage, that infrastructure no longer protects the shorelines, a fact that has left the communities along the river increasingly vulnerable.

As for the wake of effects of commercial ships and their impact on erosion, we wish to note that we are not opposed to commercial shipping. On the contrary, our relations with that economic sector are very good. Furthermore, it has acknowledged the problem, which explains why it has already taken action to limit the speed of cargo ships along the St. Lawrence Seaway. We are pleased to be working with this partner, which is making a contribution.

However, I think the government should explore the possibility of regulating the speed of pleasure craft on the river.

That being said, this problem mainly affects the resilience of our shorelines and their ability to adapt to climate change. Consequently, we need to invest in solutions that will help limit the impact of erosion on the communities living along the shorelines rather than attack any specific sector.

In the circumstances, we find it hard to understand why the federal shoreline protection program was terminated in 1997. The situation has deteriorated since then and the municipalities are paying the price.

As agreed in a resolution passed by the City of Contrecœur and unanimously adopted by the members of the Great Lakes and St. Lawrence Cities Initiative, increased federal support for initiatives designed to enhance the resilience of shorelines in the Great Lakes and St. Lawrence River basin must therefore become a priority.

Every dollar invested upstream on this issue will help reduce the emergency expenses that will have to be incurred in the event of a disaster.

Lastly, we ask that the federal government cooperate with the provincial governments, communities and stakeholders concerned in studying the phenomenon of eroding shorelines along the St. Lawrence River.

In conclusion, I would repeat that our cities are directly affected by climate change and that, as the government closest to those cities, we are also a major lever for facilitating the adaptation and resilience of our communities. To do so, however, we will need the support of all levels of government.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Thank you very much, Ms. Allaire.

I have just been advised that the witness from the Municipalité de Saint-Ignace-de-Loyola is not connected. So we will go to the witnesses from the Université Laval.

You have the floor for a total of five minutes.

[Jean-François Bernier, Research Assistant, Université Laval]

Good afternoon.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

We have been invited here to present our research work as objective witnesses.

The members of our team are trained in geomorphology. Since 2017, we have been conducting research projects on the St. Lawrence River together with Quebec's Ministry of the Environment, the Fight against Climate Change, Wildlife and Parks.

Our studies are mainly based on an approach combining remote sensing tools, particularly LiDAR, aerial imaging and drones. We then enter that data in geographic information systems.

We also make direct observations on the ground and have met with the local communities on numerous occasions.

I'm going to let Patrick Lajeunesse present the projects we have recently conducted with Quebec's Ministry of the Environment, the Fight against Climate Change, Wildlife and Parks.

[Patrick Lajeunesse, Professor, Université Laval]

Thank you, Mr. Bernier.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

In 2017, we began studying the St. Lawrence shoreline system, more specifically the fluvial section from Cornwall to Quebec City. This is a project we're conducting with Quebec's Ministry of the Environment, the Fight against Climate Change, Wildlife and Parks.

As Mr. Bernier just said, our approach is based mainly on remote sensing, the observation of aerial images and the development of follow‑up tools to determine how the shoreline reacts to erosion and sediment transport over the seasons and years.

We have carried out two projects. The first was done with the ministry to characterize the shorelines. We characterized the shorelines over more than 3,000 kilometers between Cornwall and Quebec City. That tool is now available to the community and all the cities. Everyone can observe the current status of the St. Lawrence's shorelines.

That project ended in 2020. Since then, we have been working on another project, the purpose of which is to monitor changes to the shorelines in the short, medium and long terms. Once again, the idea is to see how the shorelines react over time to climate, anthropic and natural factors. We don't understand everything, but our goal is to improve our knowledge of shoreline erosion along the St. Lawrence River.

Today we are here as witnesses, as Mr. Bernier said, and we will answer committee members' questions to the best of our ability.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Thank you very much.

We're going to begin our first round of questioning with Mr. Lewis.

The floor is yours. You have six minutes.

[Chris Lewis, Conservative, Essex, ON]

Thank you so much, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to all the witnesses for their testimony this afternoon. It's an important conversation. I suppose whether it affects your ridings or not depends on where you live in the country, but I will tell you, Mr. Chair, that it certainly affects my riding.

I live in Essex. I represent Essex, right next to Windsor. We have Lake St. Clair at the top, then Lake Erie and the Detroit River. I've had the opportunity, Mr. Chair, to visit the likes of ADM, which carries our grain. It is produced primarily in southwestern Ontario and shipped over to the United States. We then have all the aggregate, so the aggregate that comes from Manitoulin Island, as an example, and the steel that's carried to produce our vehicles is the same steel that's produced in Sault Ste. Marie.

This is a very important conversation, so I'm honoured to be here on this.

I would also add very quickly, Mr. Chair, that the Detroit River current runs at about 11 kilometres per hour, and it has been for as long as its history, in the research that I've done, in the history of what I know, and I don't think that's going to change any time soon.

I thought it was pretty good testimony from Madame Lagarde. She mentioned that shipping must go green. Ironically, when I was in Taiwan, I began to see what real green shipping looks like.

Ms. Lagarde, you also spoke about protecting the shorelines. Let me preface this by saying there is no question that with the very high levels of water in the Great Lakes, which are certainly receding, and receded about three feet over the last year.... I'm not sure what that means for the St. Lawrence Seaway.

Madame Lagarde, what, specifically, are your solutions? You mentioned solutions. I'm curious what your solutions would be.

[Micheline Lagarde]

We're witnessing a deterioration of the shorelines, of course. Certain properties are sloped. Piecemeal solutions are being left in the hands of citizens.

However, we need coastal engineering experts to find innovative and sustainable solutions. Various types of solutions are available. We need hybrid solutions. We think that—

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Pardon me, Ms. Lagarde, but I must interrupt you because we have no interpretation.

[Micheline Lagarde]

Can you hear me now?

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Yes, thank you, Ms. Lagarde.

I would ask you to answer the question that was asked, and I will give you the time you need to do so.

I'll make sure I give you the time as well, Mr. Lewis. That won't come off your time.

[Micheline Lagarde]

Thank you.

I just want to say that the shorelines are really in a dreadful state. We can't leave it to citizens to come up with solutions because the costs are astronomical and we need coastal engineering experts to find an innovative and sustainable solution. We need to restore citizens' rights to vegetation and nature. There has to be an exchange between land and water to maintain good biodiversity. We can't just truck in piles of rocks; that creates heat islands and improves nothing. So that's not a solution, but citizens might well adopt it—

[Chris Lewis, Conservative, Essex, ON]

Thank you very much. I'm sorry to cut you off. I just have a couple more questions here.

Through you, Chair, I have a question for Mr. Murphy-Rhéaume.

Thank you, sir, for mentioning Leamington. Ironically, I live in Kingsville, which is right next door. Then we could talk about Essex and LaSalle and Amherstburg and all the way up there. I've visited many of these homes right on the river. I understand about putting in all these breakwalls. It's something that is probably tougher for them to do through all the red tape.

However, my question, Mr. Murphy-Rhéaume, is this: Has the International Joint Commission been consulted on the St. Lawrence River and/or on the Detroit River on this conversation? If so, what is their stand? What is their response? Do we have a willing partner, with the United States, to this?

[Phillipe Murphy-Rhéaume]

Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you to the member for Essex for that question.

I'm pleased to say that with the cities initiative last year we put together a mayors advisory commission on coastal resilience. We had the pleasure of having the member from Essex bring a local perspective on the case of erosion and flooding in the region. That commission has been put in place by bringing together mayors and external experts to provide recommendations and different perspectives on this issue of coastal resilience, whether that be erosion or flooding.

With respect to the International Joint Commission, we do have a good relationship with the organization. We haven't consulted them directly, to my knowledge, on this coastal resilience piece, but I do know that they're quite active with respect to those questions. I wouldn't want to speak for them on their perspective with respect to coastal resilience—

[Chris Lewis, Conservative, Essex, ON]

Thank you, sir.

Is Mayor Dilkens one of the 150-some mayors who are on that board you spoke of?

[Phillipe Murphy-Rhéaume]

Yes, that's right. The mayor of Windsor is one of our members.

[Chris Lewis, Conservative, Essex, ON]

Okay. That's fantastic.

Whom do we need to speak to, then, with the IJC? I think this is a much larger conversation than just the Detroit River, the Saint Clair River and the St. Lawrence Seaway. This is a much larger conversation, because we need to get everybody at the table for this study.

I would be blown away if the IJC weren't at least invited to be witnesses here today. I think they're the major players, and they need to be around the table. Do you agree with me on that, sir?

[Phillipe Murphy-Rhéaume]

Well, certainly the IJC has a part to play in terms of a conversation around the Great Lakes water levels and the St. Lawrence levels, given their responsibility for managing those water levels.

Again, I don't want to speak for the IJC or whether they should or should not be invited, but they're certainly a very important stakeholder with respect to Great Lakes management on both sides of the border and are an important partner who has a role to play, along with the federal government, in terms of managing this important resource.

[Chris Lewis, Conservative, Essex, ON]

Thank you very much, sir.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Thank you very much, Mr. Lewis.

Next we have Mr. Badawey.

Mr. Badawey, the floor is yours. You have six minutes.