Transport Committee on Nov. 23rd, 2022

[Churence Rogers, Liberal, Bonavista—Burin—Trinity, NL]

Okay.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Thank you very much, Mr. Rogers. We're out of time for your round of questioning.

Next we have Mr. Barsalou-Duval.

Mr. Barsalou-Duval, you have two and a half minutes.

[Xavier Barsalou-Duval, Bloc, Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I have another question for Mr. D'Angelo.

In Quebec, it's really an issue of a Quebec-Canada infrastructure agreement. The federal government decided to move the deadline for applications under this program ahead by two years. Among other things, the agreement provides for contributions to public transit projects.

Has your organization been informed of this, whether by its members or otherwise? What do you think of it? On the Quebec side, $2.7 billion will be at stake soon. It might be possible to lose funding for public transit.

[Marco D'Angelo]

If I've understood your question properly, I'd say that's a problem outside Quebec as well. The Investing in Canada's Infrastructure Program will end on March 31, 2023. It would therefore be important to get going on the permanent public transit fund, or at least be allowed to submit eligible expenses under this program ahead of time, even if it is not yet in place.

We very much support making sure there is no gap in that funding in that time. We'd like to have eligible expenses advance, even if the program isn't ready immediately. We can't have a stop-start cycle in public transit in Quebec or anywhere else.

[Xavier Barsalou-Duval, Bloc, Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC]

Thank you.

If there were still funds in this envelope for public transit projects, whether in Quebec or in another province, I imagine that you would want them to be invested in public transit rather than returned to the public coffers.

[Marco D'Angelo]

Having large projects approved in a timely way has been a challenge between transit agencies that need to go through either their provincial government or through the treasury council of Quebec and then nominated and brought forward to Ottawa.

It is important that money isn't left on the table. We fully support any initiatives that make sure that is avoided.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Thank you very much, Mr. D'Angelo.

Thank you very much, Mr. Barsalou-Duval.

Next we have Mr. Bachrach.

You have two and a half minutes. The floor is yours.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. D'Angelo, earlier you mentioned the imperative that the operating support from the federal government be renewed for transit systems across Canada.

What do communities stand to lose if that doesn't take place?

[Marco D'Angelo]

They stand to lose quite a bit. It's important that funding does continue, because ridership is returning at different speeds across the country. Sherbrooke is at 102%. Brampton is at 115%. Those systems need to grow. Other systems.... I'm thinking about where workers haven't been recalled to our downtowns. It's affecting our economy, so it's important that transit systems be maintained.

In our larger centres where there are connections between cities, it's important that those be strengthened. The cost of not doing so.... It took 18 years after several budget cuts in the 1990s for ridership to return to where it was prepandemic.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Thank you.

We heard previous witnesses talk about this vision of a coherent national system that has consistent service delivery for Canadians and things like ticketing, pricing, scheduling, service standards, accessibility of buses, condition of stations and all of these things. We also heard that the federal government has a leadership role to play in ensuring consistency across the country.

I want to push back a little bit on this idea that a public model isn't possible in a country like Canada. I am curious why that is. Is it because of the incumbency of the current private sector players in the mix? Why would a public model not work in Canada?

Maybe I'll go with whoever would like to tackle that question. Mr. Accardi, do you want to take a stab at it?

[Vince Accardi]

I think there are a lot of resources in the system. There are a lot of players, like we have here today, who are willing to help.

I think, given the opportunity with the right supports, the private-public system that's already in play can work. We just need the mechanism to connect those tickets, to connect those routes and to support private operators.

I'm not sure that we need to create a monster out of it. We need to have the mechanisms and the supports for industry to do what they do best and to partner more effectively to get Canadians across Canada on one single ticket.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Thank you very much, Mr. Accardi.

Thank you, Mr. Bachrach.

Next we have Dr. Lewis. Dr. Lewis, the floor is yours. You have five minutes.

[Leslyn Lewis, Conservative, Haldimand—Norfolk, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I want to thank all the witnesses for this very important testimony.

I come from a rural community. In my community of Haldimand—Norfolk, we don't have any public transportation. I believe we had one bus, and my colleague has told us he has taken it before. That was some years ago—

[Dan Muys, Conservative, Flamborough—Glanbrook, ON]

That was many years ago.

[Leslyn Lewis, Conservative, Haldimand—Norfolk, ON]

—and it's no longer there.

What I am seeing is a new phenomenon. Many people during COVID decided that because things were online, they would move to rural communities that are very close to a city like mine. Hamilton is close to us, and we're close to Niagara West.

Now there is a return to work, so these individuals now have to commute, and there's no way of even getting to stations within the city to maybe take the GO train downtown, and they have to have vehicles.

Mr. D'Angelo, I wonder if you have any idea how we could rectify that problem.

[Marco D'Angelo]

One thing that I think has been very good that the Ontario government has been doing—and that is in all parts of Ontario—is distribution of the Ontario gas tax and assigning some of that to cities that are quite small.

Also, community transit grants have been very helpful in establishing start-up services in smaller areas. Those have been helping to connect to the GO network and also to other local transit systems.

In other words, there are funding mechanisms that the Ontario government, for one, has been taking a leadership role in.

[Leslyn Lewis, Conservative, Haldimand—Norfolk, ON]

You also mentioned in your testimony that there are areas like Brampton that have an uptake in ridership of 115%, but you said that where workers haven't been recalled to downtown, there was a problem. What do you mean by “workers who haven't been recalled”?

[Marco D'Angelo]

There is a challenge. In Brampton, for example, you have an economy that's based on transporting goods and services and coordinating that across the country, and those jobs have grown and were maintained during the pandemic.

That's different from around Union Station, where you have a lot of bank towers, or office space in other large cities where hybrid models have taken place, so it's more of a Tuesday-to-Thursday week or fully remote. That's been detrimental to building the network.

[Leslyn Lewis, Conservative, Haldimand—Norfolk, ON]

Okay, I understand.

Mr. Accardi, what impact does the carbon tax have on private motorcoach operators? Did they have to raise their fares? What kinds of things did they do to compensate for this unforeseen expense?

[Vince Accardi]

In our industry, fares have gone up because costs have gone up.

As I said in my testimony, in very few cases do our operators have a subsidy model or a program that they can use to offset the costs of ridership, so they do need to pass that on to the riders. Anything that costs them additional funds—which could include policy changes, changes to equipment, gas taxes and others—gets passed on, because our operators are solely dependent on the fare box.

[Leslyn Lewis, Conservative, Haldimand—Norfolk, ON]

Do you agree with that, Mr. Uray?

[Firat Uray]

Yes. We agree. We have to pass it on in the ticket. Otherwise, we simply cannot survive in the business.

[Leslyn Lewis, Conservative, Haldimand—Norfolk, ON]

Have you been able to sufficiently compensate for that unforeseen expense?

[Firat Uray]

No, we haven't. COVID has had another role in that.

[Leslyn Lewis, Conservative, Haldimand—Norfolk, ON]

Mr. D'Angelo, would you comment?