Transport Committee on Nov. 30th, 2022

[Mark Strahl, Conservative, Chilliwack—Hope, BC]

Thank you very much.

I heard Mr. Bachrach characterize a conversation he had with the Minister of Transport. I wasn't there, so I don't know if that was in QP or just in a private conversation that he talked about provincial leadership in this matter.

I want to talk about my home province of British Columbia, where, for instance, you can now get—and it's not across the country—from Hope in my riding, which has about 7,000 people in the region, all the way into downtown Vancouver or the Vancouver International Airport on B.C. Transit and TransLink buses. It's about a 150-kilometre journey. There are long stretches in between where there are no passengers, but the buses stop along the way in a number of first nations communities, etc. That build-out has happened in British Columbia.

Particularly, it was mentioned earlier in testimony about the Highway of Tears, or Highway 16, in northern British Columbia, where there has been significant action taken to provide service, not only through expanding B.C. Transit but by collaborating with private services like taxis, ride-hailing, not-for-profit, seniors' shuttles, friendship centre buses, B.C. Bus North, Northern Health Connections, etc. The B.C. Transit service provides that service. That gap was left and was very concerning for those communities in northern British Columbia.

I'm hearing a lot about needing what I would describe as a “made-in-Ottawa” solution for the entire country. Why are we not looking at models that are working and encouraging other provinces to adopt them, rather than saying we need a centralized national busing system? It seems a lot of the commentary is directed at one province, but we're not looking at the successes of other provinces like British Columbia.

Can we talk about provincial leadership and how we build on that, as opposed to simply looking for a national solution that perhaps ignores the reality in certain parts of the country?

I'll throw that open. Mr. Cassidy and Mr. Wabinski, perhaps you want to take the first run.

[Michael Cassidy]

Well, you're certainly right.

We have to talk nationally, but before we talk nationally, let's get the regional house in order. You need sustainable bus carriers regionally before we can go nationally, and there are many good operations in this country.

We heard today about where we have gaps, and I agree with the gaps that have been identified, but before we start talking full public, public-private or full private, let's understand what we have and take inventory of it.

The B.C. government certainly stepped up to the plate during COVID-19 to help our provincial carriers, as Quebec did, and Nova Scotia, New Brunswick and P.E.I. They stood up, and they wanted to make sure we have interlining for the future. Start there with those provinces that have the leadership and put their money on the table in 2020-21. They want leadership, and they just want to work with the federal government to put a program in place. It's very straightforward.

[Kasper Wabinski]

I would add to that. Exactly, we have to know what we have, and we have to work and build on what we have.

That's why I think a team—a national highway transportation board, a committee or a department dedicated to this file—could take care of that inventory and work on filling those gaps through capital subsidies or per route subsidies, and each route could be its own separate case. That's going to take time. It may be a team of 50 people—accountants, transportation experts, lawyers, social science—and you build out a national strategy. This is not going to happen with five people. You're going to need a small team of people who know what they're doing to connect what we have and help us fill those gaps.

[Mark Strahl, Conservative, Chilliwack—Hope, BC]

How much time do I have, Mr. Chair?

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

You have 18 seconds, Mr. Strahl.

[Mark Strahl, Conservative, Chilliwack—Hope, BC]

In the previous meeting we heard about the need for a clearing house so that schedules could be shared among carriers right across the country. Would you support that recommendation to create a clearing house as a first step?

[Michael Cassidy]

Many carriers have reservation systems now through which we can share our information and have seamless travel for parcels and passengers, but we need a communication platform. Yes, for sure, if you're going to do any form of interlining, you need a communication system for all carriers.

We used to be with Greyhound in Orleans at midnight, trying to find out if we had enough seats for passengers travelling from Ontario into Quebec and the Maritimes. We had a manual system, but we did it for seamless travel.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Thank you very much, Mr. Cassidy.

Thank you very much, Mr. Strahl.

Finally this evening we have Mr. Iacono.

Mr. Iacono, you have the floor for five minutes.

[Angelo Iacono, Liberal, Alfred-Pellan, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I thank the witnesses for being so patient and persevering to this hour to guide us on this type of transport.

Ms. Hanson, are you aware of any indigenous-led initiatives to restore intercity bus transportation?

[Dr. Cindy Hanson]

I think because of the way that most first nations governments are structured, there are local initiatives taking place in different communities. I know, for example, that in Saskatchewan there are some that operate small vans that go from their community into an urban centre where they can get access to, mainly, health care, but I also know they are inconsistent in the way services are provided.

There is also an example, though, where the federal government just started a free service from La Ronge to Prince Albert to meet one of the gaps in the province, but again it's short-term and an individual case.

We need something that's built from the ground up. I think lots of people have talked about who needs to be involved. I think it's really important that we don't forget that citizens need to be involved. If 70% of users on buses are marginalized populations, how are we involving the users we presently have?

The other point I want to make that hasn't been made is about automobility. We need to change the mindset of Canadians around the idea that we need to have a car to go everywhere. We have the roads; let's use them for public services like buses.

[Angelo Iacono, Liberal, Alfred-Pellan, QC]

You mentioned that there is a great willingness. Are these local initiatives that you were talking about having a certain success rate?

[Dr. Cindy Hanson]

I can't give an informed opinion about that, or an informed response.

[Angelo Iacono, Liberal, Alfred-Pellan, QC]

Thank you.

Doctor Alhassan, what are the people who relied on bus transportation doing to get around now?

[Dr. Jacob Alhassan]

Thank you very much for the question.

I think for the most part people are hitchhiking. In my research, I can give you very specific examples of people who walked two to three days to access health care. I spoke to such people. I have met them. Many people are using very unsafe methods because they have no other option to be able to travel across cities, depending on where they are.

I have encountered people who literally walk for multiple days on a highway to access health services and other services.

[Angelo Iacono, Liberal, Alfred-Pellan, QC]

Thank you, Doctor.

You said you had done some research. Do you have any data to present to us or can you share any findings? Also, is the need strictly related to transport—

[Dr. Jacob Alhassan]

Absolutely. I'm happy to share that with you.

I think I missed some of that.

[Angelo Iacono, Liberal, Alfred-Pellan, QC]

Mr. Chair, would you want me to repeat the question?

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Yes, if you would like to, Mr. Iacono.

[Angelo Iacono, Liberal, Alfred-Pellan, QC]

Thank you.

You mentioned that you have been doing some research. Could you share some details or data on this? Are the needs strictly limited to travel for medical services? Is it more of a daily need?

[Dr. Jacob Alhassan]

Thank you very much.

First of all, yes, I'm willing to share that information. Some of it is published. I have a 300-page Ph.D. thesis specifically on this topic. I interviewed 100 people. We've spoken to a big group of people about this.

In summary, people have had to walk for health care services, as I'm describing, but some of the travel is also just to visit their family members and some of it is to access other services within the city beyond health care services.

As we know, in health there are what we call social determinants of health. If a person cannot have access to nutritious food because it's more expensive within their community, and because of transportation they cannot access that health care, then it has a connection to health as well.

There's quite a bit that can be shared, and I'm more than willing to tender a few published journal articles as needed.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Thank you very much, Mr. Iacono.

Thank you very much, Dr. Alhassan.

I've been asked by the clerk to kindly ask that you submit an executive summary of your several-hundred-page report. He will actually send you guidelines for that. We very much appreciate that. It will be very helpful.

With that, on behalf of all members, I want to thank our witnesses for their time and their testimony this afternoon and evening.

This meeting is now adjourned.