Transport Committee on Dec. 5th, 2022

[Stephanie Hébert, Assistant Deputy Minister, Programs, Department of Transport]

Transport Canada has worked closely with PrairiesCan and Indigenous Services Canada. We have done a number of studies, from which we understand that without some level of funding from the Government of Canada, it would not be possible to maintain rail access to Churchill.

Funding was announced in the budget. That funding has recently been announced as well by PrairiesCan, in collaboration with the Province of Manitoba, to undertake an investment to support capital repairs and critical infrastructure. This will help maintain the rail service to northern Manitoba and to the 14 communities that really rely upon this service for transportation connectivity and food security. This will help keep the cost down related to travel and to the transportation of essential goods and services.

[Fayçal El-Khoury, Liberal, Laval—Les Îles, QC]

Was there some urgent situation that called for the action you have taken?

[Stephanie Hébert]

It was more that the studies done told us that without government intervention, the service might be interrupted. We wanted to avoid that kind of interruption, because we recognize the importance of the railway for those communities.

That is why the Canadian government, together with the Manitoba government, announced that it was going to make investments in order to maintain that service.

In the meantime, Transport Canada is examining various options to ensure that the service continues in the long term.

[Fayçal El-Khoury, Liberal, Laval—Les Îles, QC]

Are you satisfied with all the measures taken by Transport Canada concerning air, ground and marine transportation and with the recommendations that have been made? If not, do you have other recommendations to make for improving the system?

[Michael Keenan]

It is always possible to improve the system, and that is what we do every day.

Regarding recommendations, we are always open to this committee's suggestions for moving priority issues forward.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Thank you, Mr. El-Khoury.

Thank you very much, Mr. Keenan.

Mr. Barsalou-Duval, you have the floor for two and a half minutes.

[Xavier Barsalou-Duval, Bloc, Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Keenan, as the Chair suggested I do, I am going to let you answer the question I asked before, regarding people who are fed up with the noise of the planes and helicopters and are making complaints.

How can these people get a bit of peace and quiet in their everyday lives? What can we do so they get justice, or at least so they are heard?

[Michael Keenan]

That's a good question. In fact, it is one that is often asked and it applies to nearly all airports.

First, we have policies that require airports to have a good system for responding to concerns from the public, particularly people in nearby neighbourhoods.

Mr. Robinson can give you more details.

[Nicholas Robinson]

Yes, thank you.

There are a couple of ways that we like to encourage individuals to engage in those sorts of concerns with regard to, particularly, smaller airports.

The first one is that we ensure that the airports in small communities have and are encouraged to have strong relationships with the communities around them. Airports have to exist with the support of the communities around them, so in our regulations, when they're looking at expansion of services or a major expansion of the infrastructure within an airport, there are opportunities and requirements for those airports to engage with their communities to hear their concerns and to provide the studies around how the noise may increase in the community and what other impacts in and around the wildlife of the community might be present so that the communities can input and feed into the decisions and how these projects may be undertaken.

With regard to a particular complaint though, there's absolutely a mechanism whereby individuals can contact Transport Canada. We receive complaints quite frequently, as the deputy minister mentioned. Where we see that there are contraventions of rules or contravention of flight hours, or if there are flights at dangerous altitudes, we will not hesitate to review the situation and make sure that the airport and the air operators within the airport are in compliance and that they're following the rules we've laid out.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Thank you, Mr. Barsalou-Duval.

Thank you very much, Mr. Robinson.

We have Mr. Bachrach next.

Mr. Bachrach, the floor is yours. You have two and a half minutes.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I have so many questions and so little time.

I'm tempted to continue my questions about tugboat safety, but I want to clarify that what I was suggesting in my last round of questions wasn't to require certification of all small commercial vessels but just of those that are involved in commercial towing, which, I believe you'll agree, has unique risks, similar to the unique risks involved in carrying more than 12 passengers.

I want to talk a little bit about one of the other concerns I've heard from people in the tugboat industry, which is with the lack of regulations around the size of load that a tugboat of a certain size can pull.

Jason Woods, the president of ILWU Local 400, was quoted as saying, “Right now, you have a culture of lax standards....You can tow a barge full of logging equipment on a bungee cord if you want to.”

My question is this: Is there any regulatory limit on the size of load that can be towed commercially by a barge under 15 tonnes?

[Michael Keenan]

Mr. Chair, the member—

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Oh, sorry. I mean by a tugboat under 15 tonnes. You're not going to tow anything with a barge.

[Michael Keenan]

I wasn't going to trifle that out.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

It would be a good way to use up the two and a half minutes.

[Michael Keenan]

It's a very good question.

I believe there are limits in terms of the load. I do not know the details.

Nick, do you know the details?

[Nicholas Robinson]

Part of the carriage, what they can load, is embedded into the safety management systems of particular companies.

A particular company will have a safety management system in place and they will have to comply with that safety management system, but there are not—

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Those are the company's own rules, though. If you have a tug that's under 15 tonnes, does the government have any rules about the size of load you can tow with that?

[Nicholas Robinson]

I'll have to verify that and come back.

[Michael Keenan]

Can I commit that we will get back to you on that?

I believe there is a framework that applies in terms of towing limits for tugs. I would concede and recognize that this is an area where we're continuing to do work.

That's a very good question. We'll come back with an answer on that.

We continue to be open to looking at ways of strengthening the safety performance in key areas where we see room for improvement and this is one of them. We'll come back on that.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Thank you very much, Mr. Bachrach.

Finally for today, we have Mr. Muys.

You have the floor for five minutes.

[Dan Muys, Conservative, Flamborough—Glanbrook, ON]

Thank you.

I want to pick up on a question that my colleague, Mr. Chahal, had for the minister at the end. Of course, the time ran out.

It was about the increase in electrification of vehicles. Obviously, we're seeing that uptick. In fact, in my home province of Ontario, there was an announcement today by the provincial government with regard to that.

The question was asked about whether the grid could sustain that. While I realize it's a matter of provincial jurisdiction, the minister referred to some federal contribution towards helping the provinces do that. Certainly, as Transport Canada and the federal government are looking to increase the use and the production of electric vehicles across Canada, they have an interest in whether there will be sufficient capacity in the grid to sustain that.

I just want to know what your thoughts would be on that.

[Michael Keenan]

It's a very good question. The minister indicated that there are sort of two parts to it. There's actually having the gas-up or the recharge facilities, which he answered. There's a lot of work in making sure those are in place. That part of the en route question is covered.

The shift towards electric vehicles and their charging requirements either at home, at work or on the road is part of a changing dynamic around the electricity grid and the growing use of renewables and generation as well. There are a lot of change dynamics on the grid.

Transport Canada works very closely with Natural Resources Canada on these issues of grid readiness for the evolution of not just zero-emission vehicle on the road, but at marine ports, etc. A lot of work is happening between Natural Resources Canada and its provincial energy counterparts on grid readiness for really the broader shift in net zero 2050.

Cars are part of it, but there are also the renewables. It's a big issue. A lot of work is being done and it needs to land well.

[Dan Muys, Conservative, Flamborough—Glanbrook, ON]

Is enough being done? Frankly, $250 million is a drop in the bucket. I hear you with regard to not just the cars, but the marine sector and others.

Is enough being done? What is being done to accelerate that?

[Michael Keenan]

A lot of work is being done and there are a lot of projects, like the Atlantic loop out east and the northwest grid.... There are a lot of projects to evolve the grid and the connections. Most of these are under provincial jurisdiction, but there is a lot of federal-provincial discussion and investment partnerships to ensure we are on a pathway of readiness. It's an area that is going to require constant work in the years to come.

Are we on a path to solve it? My sense, in talking to my colleagues at Natural Resources Canada and in the provinces, is that the discussions and the work are there, but it has to continue.