Transport Committee on Dec. 5th, 2022

[Vance Badawey, Liberal, Niagara Centre, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Minister.

I'll pass on the rest of my time to Mr. Chahal.

[George Chahal, Liberal, Calgary Skyview, AB]

Thank you, Minister, for joining us today.

Minister, I represent a very diverse riding and the home of the Calgary International Airport. You recently announced an expanded air transport agreement between Canada and India. This is great news for Canadians wanting to travel to India. However, some media outlets initially reported that this would allow for unlimited flights between the two countries, creating an impression that everything was now permissible, including direct flights from cities like Calgary to New Delhi, Chandigarh or Amritsar.

However, that is not the case. Is that correct?

If I could follow up, could you comment on what the expanded air transport agreement means and how it is different from the agreement that was reached when the Conservatives were in power in 2011?

[Omar Alghabra, Liberal, Mississauga Centre, ON]

I know you and several of our colleagues have been flagging this issue with me for a while. Canadians, those who have a need or desire to travel to India, have been asking for so long to increase travel options, including direct flights to Amritsar. I certainly supported that objective.

Last spring, I met with the Indian minister of civil aviation here in Ottawa. I directly asked him about this and expressed our desire to expand the air transport agreement with India to enable flight operators to land anywhere and everywhere, to have an open sky agreement, including direct flights to Amritsar.

The Indian government was not ready for that step, so we agreed on an interim basis to expand what we have and lift the cap on the number of flights from 35 flights a week to an unlimited number of flights a week, however—to the same airports that have already been agreed upon.

I will still do whatever I can to advance that objective. I would like to see direct flights to Amritsar. We need the Indian government's approval for that, and we will continue to work with them on seeing that dream realized.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Thank you very much, Minister.

Thank you, Mr. Chalal.

Mr. Barsalou-Duval, you have the floor for two and a half minutes.

[Xavier Barsalou-Duval, Bloc, Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I would like to come back to the question of the Air Passenger Protection Regulations.

Representatives of the Canadian Transportation Agency testified before the committee and told us that the backlog was currently over 30,000 complaints that had not been processed. That situation has gone on for several years. The CTA has been unable to resolve it, it receives so many complaints. It will take years for someone's complaint to be processed. At this point, the average wait time is a year and a half to two years, and that is completely unacceptable. We get the feeling that the CTA will never resolve this situation.

On top of that, we have an air passenger protection system that mean that the burden of proof lies with consumers, although they do not have all the information and they cannot do an investigation to find out what part was defective. They do not have the competencies to evaluate the condition of an airplane and they do not know the full extent of what happens in an airport. They are therefore at a complete disadvantage when it comes to exercising their rights.

Should the rules not be simplified so we simply make sure that when passengers' flights are cancelled, they always have the option of getting a refund? Obviously, that is not always the option they prefer. On the other hand, we have to understand that the decision that was made under the mandate you gave the CTA, that it require that a reservation be provided for a new flight within 48 hours, also does not suit everyone. There are many people who can't wait 48 hours, or they would miss the wedding, the convention or the business meeting that was the reason they were flying. It is not always a viable solution. We have to consider the individual's situation. A refund should quite simply be offered automatically, if the arrangement does not suit the consumer.

Don't you agree with me about that?

[Omar Alghabra, Liberal, Mississauga Centre, ON]

Again, the last couple of years have been extraordinary, and we saw an extraordinary number of disruptions that certainly caused an unpredictable number of complaints that were not forecasted.

I know that the Canadian Transportation Agency is doing their best to deal with this unprecedented volume. We are committed to working with them. When I say “we”, I mean the Government of Canada, Transport Canada, and me personally. We work to provide them the resources they need, but we also work with them on figuring out how we can improve the efficiency of the system.

This period has stress-tested the system and has exposed some areas of vulnerabilities, and, as I said to you and to the committee just now, I am committed to currently reviewing the lessons learned from this period, and whatever recommendations are found to improve and strengthen the air passenger bill of rights, we will take action on them.

[Le président, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Thank you, Minister.

Next we have Mr. Bachrach.

Mr. Bachrach, the floor is yours. You have two and a half minutes.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Minister, it has been a year and a half since Greyhound pulled out of Canada. It has been over four years since they pulled out of western Canada. Right now Canadians, especially low-income Canadians, have fewer passenger transportation options than they have had in decades and decades.

You have said in the past that if the provinces step up with proposals, the federal government is willing to provide resources; but what we have heard at the transport committee from witnesses for our current study on bus transport is that federal leadership is lacking.

My question is, what happens when the provinces don't step up, when they don't come forward with proposals to fill the holes left by Greyhound? At one point, Greyhound provided an interconnected interprovincial system of bus transport all across the country. Now we have a fragment of that, a shadow of that former network.

What happens when the provinces don't come forward because, frankly, they are not interested in building a national passenger bus network? What leadership are you willing to show as our Transport Minister to ensure that Canadians have access to the kind of bus transportation that a lot of other countries take for granted?

[Omar Alghabra, Liberal, Mississauga Centre, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair and Mr. Bachrach.

I know this is yet another issue that you've demonstrated leadership on for a while. You and I have spoken about this, and you've raised this question, understandably so.

I agree with you on the principle that there are communities that are underserved today. There are many Canadians who depend on intercity bus services that, unfortunately, are not as available as they used to be before. That concerns me.

To answer your question on what leadership the federal government has taken in this, I have personally written to all of my provincial ministers. Let me step back. I know it's not always great to hear this, but as you know intercity bus transportation is a provincial matter. However, I've written and expressed the willingness of the federal government to work collaboratively with provinces on any initiative or projects they may have to address this gap. The Province of British Columbia had a project. We partnered with them. We provided support to address this gap.

I will repeat, while it is constitutionally the responsibility of the provinces, we are more than willing to partner and collaborate with provinces on addressing this gap. I've not heard back from any provincial minister about any ideas they may have.

I'll continue to work with you. I know you're reaching out to your provincial counterparts. Across the country I think Canadians should write to their MPP or MLA or MNA to express their needs.

I repeat that the federal government is willing to collaborate and partner with provinces in addressing this gap.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Thank you very much, Minister, and Mr. Bachrach.

Next we have Mr. Strahl.

Mr Strahl, the floor is yours. You have five minutes.

[Mark Strahl, Conservative, Chilliwack—Hope, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Minister, in the final report of the national supply chain task force, it was recommended that the government work to reopen FAST, the free and secure trade program offices here in Canada. There is a backlog of 11,000 applications. This program allows low-risk shipments and drivers travelling between Canada, the U.S. and Mexico expedited travel across the border.

I note that NEXUS is also affected. There are hundreds of thousands of applications waiting there. Many Canadians who travel frequently to do business in the United States rely on this. We heard about the need to reopen these enrolment centres in Canada.

Can you give this committee an update on when that will happen?

[Omar Alghabra, Liberal, Mississauga Centre, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Strahl, I share your concern about the disruptions that we've seen to either FAST or NEXUS. I know many Canadians, including many truck drivers, rely on that service to be able to cross the border efficiently. We have been in active discussions with our friends in the U.S. on opening these offices. My understanding is that we've made progress on FAST. We made some progress on NEXUS to automatically renew some of the expired applications. But there's still work being done; we need the U.S. to advance this objective. I know we are in active discussions. I'm looking forward to seeing results as quickly possible.

[Mark Strahl, Conservative, Chilliwack—Hope, BC]

I'll go back to the airline passenger protection regulations.

I noted—I don't imagine it was in your mandate letter, but your predecessor's—that there was a desire to implement service standards for federally regulated organizations like CATSA, CBSA, etc. How are we doing on that?

Do you agree with the airlines that presented here on the APPR believing that if organizations like Nav Canada, CATSA, CBSA, and the airports themselves fail to meet that standard and it affects passengers on their journeys, that they should be, I guess, part of the compensation package for affected passengers? Or do you think it should still fall entirely on the airlines to manage the compensation for affected passengers?

[Omar Alghabra, Liberal, Mississauga Centre, ON]

Mr. Chair and Mr. Strahl, let me just say that organizations like CATSA already have a service standard. That doesn't mean this shouldn't be improved or reviewed. That's what we're doing right now. As I stated earlier, we are currently reviewing—this was part of the discussion we had at the summit last week—operating standards and service quality standards for all agencies, including government agencies.

I just want to point out, though, that it is the airline that has the purchase agreement with the customer. They are the ones who are paid by the customer. Having said that, I will acknowledge that other agencies have an impact. The sector is so linked and interdependent, they would, or could, have an impact on the airline's ability to deliver their service.

[Mark Strahl, Conservative, Chilliwack—Hope, BC]

Okay.

I'll try to get one more question in here. You spoke about electric vehicles. We've heard about mandates for that. I was interested to note that there is some reporting that to replace an ONroute gas station would require the amount of electricity that's currently required to power the city of Belleville, for instance. We've seen in California and now Switzerland that their power grid has not been able to handle it. They've been telling people to please not charge their electric vehicles.

What has the government done to ensure that they're not just announcing at the consumer end where you plug in your electric vehicle? What have they done to look at the baseload power that's required as we transfer to electric vehicles going forward? Are we going to see, like California and like Switzerland, people being told not to plug in their cars so that we can keep powering our homes?

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

You have 20 seconds for a response, please, Minister.

[Omar Alghabra, Liberal, Mississauga Centre, ON]

Look, first of all, this is an exciting period for the auto sector as we are moving into a transformational period to reduce emissions. In addition to providing incentives for consumers, the government is investing half a billion dollars to build recharging stations in partnership with communities.

As well, the budget contained $250 million to work with provinces on modernizing and improving their grid. I know that a lot of smart people in local utilities and provincial operating systems are working on this. The federal government has set aside $250 million to provide support for any initiative that may advance that goal.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Thank you very much, Minister.

Thank you, Mr. Strahl.

Mr. Iacono, you have the floor for five minutes.

[Angelo Iacono, Liberal, Alfred-Pellan, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I want to thank the minister and the officials with him for being here today.

Minister, can you tell us a bit more about how the new subsidiary of VIA Rail will contribute to moving the high-frequency rail project forward?

Why is the new subsidiary necessary? What are the specific tasks it will be assigned with this new funding?

[Omar Alghabra, Liberal, Mississauga Centre, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Iacono, for that question.

High-frequency rail, which I referred to in my opening remarks, is a transformational project. It will not only be the largest infrastructure project in Canada's history. It will also transform that corridor by creating safe, reliable, fast and frequent service to Canadians who live along the busiest rail corridor in Canada.

As I said, this project is large. It's complicated. We wanted to make sure we had a rigorous oversight process to ensure that the execution of the project happens on time, on budget and according to high standards of accountability and transparency. The model we landed on was the creation of a subsidiary of VIA Rail, called VIA HFR, which will report directly to Parliament through the Minister of Transport, with a board of directors that ensures that the project is administered and implemented responsibly and prudently.

[Angelo Iacono, Liberal, Alfred-Pellan, QC]

Thank you, Minister.

What are the next major milestones to watch for as the high-frequency rail project moves forward?

[Omar Alghabra, Liberal, Mississauga Centre, ON]

Mr. Chair, we've taken significant steps to date, and we're now also at a historic moment for this project.

Earlier this year, we sought an expression of interest from partners in the private sector. More than 50 organizations participated by offering questions and expressing interest.

Six weeks ago, we released the summary of what we heard from potential partners in the private sector. The next step would be to issue a request for qualification to seek interest among companies or a consortium of companies in partnering with us.

Transport Canada, with the help of VIA HFR and experts, will assess those proposals and, based on the request for qualification, we would then enter into a request for proposals.

[Angelo Iacono, Liberal, Alfred-Pellan, QC]

Can you remind us of how high-frequency rail will improve connectivity in Canada along the main passenger rail corridor?

[Omar Alghabra, Liberal, Mississauga Centre, ON]

Mr. Chair, I know Canadians have been talking about this service for decades. Particularly those who live in the corridor that connects Québec City all the way to Toronto and Windsor and those in the communities in between have been aspiring to see fast, efficient and reliable rail service.

For as long as VIA has been around, there has not been a dedicated track for VIA that enables it to provide dedicated service. This project will create a dedicated track that will be green, electric and fast. It will connect communities, and it will open up not only convenience for passengers but also economic development. I would emphasize that it's a great nation-building exercise that will bring our communities closer together.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Thank you, Mr. Iacono; thank you, Minister.

Minister, it's always a pleasure welcoming you here to committee. On behalf of all the members, I want to thank you for giving us your time and for responding to all of our questions and concerns.

With that, I will suspend the meeting for two minutes as we allow the minister to leave and we welcome two additional witnesses from Transport.

This meeting is suspended.