Transport Committee on Oct. 4th, 2023

[Bonita Zarrillo, NDP, Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC]

In regard to the knowledge, we know that there is indigenous knowledge. We know that there are NGOs on the ground. We know that Public Works has all kinds of information. How is that information getting funnelled up to Infrastructure Canada? I can think of a number of NGOs that are doing the work on the ground and aren't getting federal support.

[Kelly Gillis]

As we look at providing more online tools—and this is part of the national adaptation strategy—we aren't looking to do it ourselves. We are looking at doing it through a consortium, and we are working with a consortium of NGOs, because they do have expertise on the ground. It can't all be done by federal public servants. As part of this and the online tools we provide to clients, it's for them to be able to access the knowledge that they have...and then be readily available to help them understand the different investments they have to make for their communities.

I agree 100% with you. There are a lot of really good NGOs out there that have fantastic knowledge, and it needs to be shared and then used by communities. We're working with that objective in mind.

[Bonita Zarrillo, NDP, Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC]

That would be great. I'd love to see you come out to B.C. and look at some of the work we're doing in the watersheds and on watershed resiliency.

I'm going to pivot right now to the Infrastructure Bank because I was disappointed to see that a REIT was funded through the Infrastructure Bank. I'm not sure if that funding came to be, but I do note that the mandate for the Canada Infrastructure Bank talks about how they have to be decarbonized and any savings need to go down to tenants—they even call out tenants in that.

Can you let me know the decision behind funding REITs for retrofits and and if any savings are flowing down to tenants?

[Kelly Gillis]

The Canada Infrastructure Bank does have a mandate on the built environment to reduce GHGs and to support retrofits and deep retrofits. It is their decision afterwards to determine what types of buildings can get good reductions in GHGs.

That particular program or investment would have been about reduced GHGs. We'd have to get more details on that particular investment from the Canada Infrastructure Bank.

[Bonita Zarrillo, NDP, Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC]

I'd like to request that, then, because the response I received to my Order Paper question said, “Ultimately, savings from energy savings, efficiencies and operating cost savings are passed on to building owners and tenants.”

I just want to know how you're tracking that and what happened with that one.

How much time do I have, Mr. Chair?

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

You have one minute and 30 seconds left.

[Bonita Zarrillo, NDP, Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC]

I'm going to pivot to transit right now because Infrastructure Canada itself funded part of a study around the gender lens in relation to public transit. We know, out of that study and even from other studies, that in public transit, women and persons with disabilities are disproportionally affected by lack of transit. At the same time, women use public transit at different times and more often.

I wonder if you could share, when we talk about inclusive Canada, what's happening with persons with disabilities. You probably know that in B.C. right now, in the metro Vancouver area, there aren't enough operating funds to offer the HandyDART anymore. It's become quite difficult for persons with disabilities. They are being asked to take a taxi, where someone maybe doesn't have the skills or even the continuity to work with a person.

Could you just let me know, on the gender lens as well as on the disability lens, what is happening on public transit?

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

You have 30 seconds, please, Ms. Gillis.

[Kelly Gillis]

Public transit is a really important investment. We do know it's really important for vulnerable populations. We do use the Statistics Canada multiple deprivation index as we look at where transit is going to be served, to make sure that we understand the different districts. Then, within this particular ministry as we look to the future, bringing in housing as an integrated approach to make sure that we're not displacing those who need the transit is a really new opportunity.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Thank you very much, Deputy Minister Gillis.

Thank you, Ms. Zarillo.

Next we have Mr. Muys.

The floor is yours. You have five minutes.

[Dan Muys, Conservative, Flamborough—Glanbrook, ON]

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you to both of you for being back at committee. I'm not going to say that you're part of the furniture, although I've been on this committee for a couple of years and I know you've been here a few times.

In my area of the world—in the greater Toronto-Hamilton area and indeed in the greater Golden Horseshoe—gridlock is a daily challenge for many of my constituents and for many people. I know that under the previous government, in the great recession there were a number of investments in transportation and highway infrastructure. I can think of one in my community—Highway 403—where the federal government was the senior funding partner. I know there are multiple levels of jurisdiction in the province. In the particular project I'm thinking about, two-thirds were from the feds and a third was from the province.

What currently exists in terms of transportation infrastructure and highway infrastructure funding programs within Infrastructure Canada? Is there a move away from that? How does that compare to the past?

[Kelly Gillis]

In Infrastructure Canada, our mode of investment in urban centres is public transit. We did have the new building Canada fund and the building Canada fund, which did fund roads and bridges in urban centres, but at this point in time, that would be mainly through the national trade corridors fund at Transport Canada.

Within an urban environment, really we are looking for a mode shift to go to public transit, which are the investments we are making for congestion in urban centres.

[Dan Muys, Conservative, Flamborough—Glanbrook, ON]

Is that a political direction or is that the decision of Infrastructure Canada?

We're talking about the fourth-largest city on the continent. There used to be a joke that Toronto was an hour away from Toronto. Now Toronto is two hours away from Toronto, or worse.

The minister spoke about moving goods and supply chains. If I read the previous mandate letters, obviously I could infer from those that it is a priority.

[Kelly Gillis]

There is one program—the Canada community-building fund—that communities can use to determine how to fund roads and bridges within their communities; it's their decision. That's the $2.4 billion that is transferred statutorily annually to communities. Since 2015, when our new programming came into being, we separated so that Transport Canada funds infrastructure that deals with mainly the movement of goods, and we fund mainly the commuting of people.

[Dan Muys, Conservative, Flamborough—Glanbrook, ON]

The $2.4 billion, which is not a large—

[Kelly Gillis]

The $2.4 billion is the Canada community-building fund.

[Dan Muys, Conservative, Flamborough—Glanbrook, ON]

Switching gears, then, when the previous minister was at committee, we asked him about performance bonuses for the CIB executives. I know the CIB isn't directly under you, although the current minister did say that if we had questions about the CIB, you guys would be here to answer those questions. Have the performance metrics changed, or how have they evolved in the past year in terms of how those executives are being compensated and how that aligns with their objectives?

[Kelly Gillis]

The performance metrics are set by the CIB through its annual corporate plan, which is reviewed and put before Treasury Board Secretariat, and then tabled in Parliament. That's how their performance metrics are set on an annual basis—looking at the context and the direction they have been given in the target areas of investment—and then they make their independent project investment decisions.

[Dan Muys, Conservative, Flamborough—Glanbrook, ON]

The last we heard, there were no projects completed yet by the CIB. Is that still the case?

[Kelly Gillis]

They have projects in use right now. The REM is in use. They also have some zero-emission buses they have supported the financing of that are in use, and they have 32 projects that are under construction right now.

[Dan Muys, Conservative, Flamborough—Glanbrook, ON]

There are 34 projects, but two are—

[Kelly Gillis]

There are 32 projects that are in construction—

[Dan Muys, Conservative, Flamborough—Glanbrook, ON]

And two that are—

[Kelly Gillis]

The Réseau express métropolitain is in use, and then some zero-emission buses they have helped finance are in use in the community.

[Dan Muys, Conservative, Flamborough—Glanbrook, ON]

Seven years later, there are two projects. Do you find that to be an acceptable rate of progress?