Evidence of meeting #80 for Transport, Infrastructure and Communities in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was communities.
A video is available from Parliament.
Conservative
Kyle Seeback Conservative Dufferin—Caledon, ON
What about for the housing accelerator fund? Was there internal analysis on how many houses the housing accelerator fund would produce, and, if so, would you table or produce that analysis for the committee?
Deputy Minister, Infrastructure and Communities, Office of Infrastructure of Canada
That analysis would be under the Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation, which is the proponent for that particular program. Certainly I can ask for CMHC to provide more information on the 100,000 homes under that program.
Conservative
Kyle Seeback Conservative Dufferin—Caledon, ON
That would be great. Thank you very much.
Would you know why the bank is choosing to give money to a large hedge fund to retrofit a luxury hotel as opposed to investing in homes for people who have financial challenges, in order to try to reduce their carbon emissions?
Deputy Minister, Infrastructure and Communities, Office of Infrastructure of Canada
With regard to the investment decision on that particular project you mentioned, we will ask the bank for a follow-up. The bank itself does not invest in homes; it is the CMHC that invests in homes.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Peter Schiefke
Thank you very much, Mr. Seeback.
Thank you, Ms. Gillis.
We'll turn it over to Mr. Badawey for one last question.
Liberal
Vance Badawey Liberal Niagara Centre, ON
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I just want to give Ms. Gillis the opportunity to actually clarify a lot of the misconceptions the opposition might have in terms of the question just now with respect to housing versus investments. Earlier, we heard some confusion about some of the programs, how they operate and what their mandates are, etc. If you want to reach back and provide any clarifications, I'll give you that opportunity with my time right now.
Deputy Minister, Infrastructure and Communities, Office of Infrastructure of Canada
Thank you very much for the question.
When we look at the investments at Infrastructure Canada and the importance of those investments, as you said before, to make communities more vibrant and to make sure that the tax base of municipalities is not putting too much pressure on the bills of Canadians, our programs have been able to make a huge difference. Since 2015, there have been 79 billion dollars' worth of investments in infrastructure that makes a difference in communities every day, in terms of water, sewer, transportation, renewable energy and a number of different active transportation projects that are important for Canadians.
When we look at the infrastructure challenges and the investment needs across the country, we do need to look at different types of tools. The Canada Infrastructure Bank is another type of tool that relies not on grants and contributions but on financing, which is returned to the organization so it can make further investments.
It's good to have a range of different levers at our disposal to deal with the challenges the country has with respect to important infrastructure investments.
Liberal
Vance Badawey Liberal Niagara Centre, ON
With that said, the Infrastructure Bank, frankly, is money that comes back. It's not money that's coming from the taxpayers; it's simply encouraging development, leveraging dollars that would otherwise not be available, and taking care of a lot of the infrastructure for housing and the other projects that apply for it to accelerate those projects.
Deputy Minister, Infrastructure and Communities, Office of Infrastructure of Canada
That's correct.
Out of the 48 projects on which they've come to a financial close, they have financing in place of almost $10 billion, but 28 billion dollars' worth of investments are being made.
Liberal
Vance Badawey Liberal Niagara Centre, ON
And it's up to them to actually apply for those projects; it's not up to the government.
Deputy Minister, Infrastructure and Communities, Office of Infrastructure of Canada
It's not up to the government.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Peter Schiefke
Thank you very much, Mr. Badawey.
I would like to thank the deputy minister and the assistant deputy minister for their testimony this evening and for staying so late with us.
With that, this meeting is adjourned.
Liberal
Sean Fraser Liberal Central Nova, NS
In addition to making sure we have access to clean water and waste-water infrastructure that allows our communities to function, we need to realize the importance of continuing to invest in the things we can't see that unlock opportunities for what I'm sure is a top priority of nearly everyone sitting around this table, which is the need to build more homes. If we don't invest in the water and waste-water infrastructure that communities demand, we can't hope to even sustain the communities that we enjoy today, let alone experience the rate of growth that we would all like to see.
Coming from Nova Scotia, it is particularly important to me that we continue to invest in climate-resilient infrastructure. Over the past 12 months of my life—a little more than a year, as of just a couple of weekends ago—we've seen a once-in-a-century hurricane and once-in-a-century floods and wildfires that we have never seen before. These have caused ungodly consequences for the people who live in my home province. They threaten critical infrastructure. We know that we need to continue to reduce our emissions if we're going to combat climate change, but we also have to build communities that can better adapt to the consequences of climate change that are now baked in, given the pollution that has occurred across the world for the past many decades.
In addition to continuing to invest in infrastructure that moves people and goods, allows us to have livable communities, expands water treatment so that we can build homes, and protects us against the consequences of climate change, we also need to be investing in communities and community assets: recreational properties, cultural properties, heritage properties. When we actually make the kinds of investments that make communities not just places where a person can find somewhere to sleep, but places where they can enjoy a full and meaningful life by engaging fully in their community and participating in activities that allow them to experience fulfilment, we can build healthier people and healthier communities.
We need to work together across levels of government. If we do that, I'm convinced that we can build a more prosperous, sustainable and healthy Canada for everyone in every region of the country.
Mr. Chair, you've given me the signal that my time is up. I'm happy to respect the clock and turn it over to you for questions.
Thank you.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Peter Schiefke
Thank you very much, Minister.
We'll begin our line of questioning today with Dr. Lewis.
Dr. Lewis, the floor is yours. You have six minutes.
Conservative
Leslyn Lewis Conservative Haldimand—Norfolk, ON
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Minister, I want to ask you about one of the bank's projects that I find particularly concerning. The CIB has offered $38 million to KingSett Capital, which is the owner of the Fairmont Royal York hotel in downtown Toronto, to retrofit the building and make it net-zero. Why does the CIB need to fund KingSett Capital, which is a private equity firm that has $17 billion in assets?
Liberal
Sean Fraser Liberal Central Nova, NS
The bank operates on commercial terms. They operate independent of my office, and I think that's essential if they're going to function. One priority of the bank is to invest in energy retrofits.
Keep in mind that when they loan money to a proponent, that money is typically paid back. They may take risks at times, as any commercial enterprise would, but my belief is that by allowing the bank some flexibility to pursue goals, including energy efficiency, we can actually achieve social outcomes that are important to Canadians, even when they engage private sector actors.
Conservative
Leslyn Lewis Conservative Haldimand—Norfolk, ON
Okay. Let's talk about social outcomes. How many homes were created for the average Canadian from funding that $38-million Fairmont Royal York hotel net-zero retrofit project? How many homes were created for average Canadians by doing that?
Liberal
Sean Fraser Liberal Central Nova, NS
That project didn't involve homes for Canadians. That was an energy retrofit of a different kind altogether.
Conservative
Leslyn Lewis Conservative Haldimand—Norfolk, ON
Well, it is housing, so zero homes for Canadians. I'm going to answer the question for you. Actually zero homes were created from that $38 million.
Conservative
Leslyn Lewis Conservative Haldimand—Norfolk, ON
Do you realize that the cheapest hotel room at the Royal York is $450 a night and that the average Canadian cannot afford to stay at that hotel for even one night?
Liberal
Sean Fraser Liberal Central Nova, NS
That wasn't a housing development launched by the government. That was a commercial deal that was reached to improve the energy efficiency of the building that you're talking about.