Evidence of meeting #80 for Transport, Infrastructure and Communities in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was communities.
A video is available from Parliament.
9:15 p.m.
Bloc
Xavier Barsalou-Duval Bloc Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC
Okay.
So you are continuing to work on what was already in progress. So I gather there is no new direction. Even though there was a cabinet shuffle, there is really no direction.
I have one last question for you, regarding the Canada Communities Building Fund, which is coming to an end on December 31.
What will happen to municipalities in Quebec on January 1, 2024? What will they do if they need funding for their projects?
9:15 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Peter Schiefke
Excuse me, Mr. Barsalou-Duval.
Just quickly, before you answer that, Deputy Minister Gillis, I want to make sure the translation is working correctly for everybody.
Is it working for everybody?
Okay. The floor is yours, Ms. Gillis.
9:15 p.m.
Deputy Minister, Infrastructure and Communities, Office of Infrastructure of Canada
I want to thank the member for his question.
The program will end on March 31, 2024, not December 31, 2023. We are engaged in many discussions with all the provinces and territories. That started a year ago and I expect the necessary agreements will be in place before March 31, 2024.
9:15 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Peter Schiefke
Thank you very much.
Thank you, Mr. Barsalou-Duval.
Next we have Ms. Zarrillo.
The floor is yours for two and a half minutes.
9:15 p.m.
NDP
Bonita Zarrillo NDP Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I wanted to revisit that knowledge base and just having those voices at the table, and some of the work you're doing around the planning and asset management that you spoke about. I want to talk about the Canadian Public Works Association.
The Canadian Public Works Association has come to see me multiple times, saying that they would like to have a seat at the table to talk about what's happening with their workers on the ground. We also have mayors around that advocacy table who talk about the fact that they can't even do asset planning because they don't have computers to do it. They don't have the software and they're not funded for that through Infrastructure Canada.
I think there's a lot of good knowledge there. Could I ask Infrastructure Canada to please have a meeting with the Canadian Public Works Association and include them in some of these discussions and planning? It's early days, and they deal with the aftermath of climate change all the time.
9:15 p.m.
Deputy Minister, Infrastructure and Communities, Office of Infrastructure of Canada
I would be happy to meet with them.
9:15 p.m.
NDP
Bonita Zarrillo NDP Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC
That would be awesome. Thank you so much.
Also, you mentioned the planning, and I know that first nation communities have a very difficult time planning because their funding comes year by year. It's very hard for them to plan out. Is there any change planned for first nation communities to give them longer planning windows so they can actually plan for the infrastructure that's needed?
9:20 p.m.
Deputy Minister, Infrastructure and Communities, Office of Infrastructure of Canada
For Infrastructure Canada, we work closely with Indigenous Services Canada, who are the primary infrastructure funders for first nation communities, and they are changing the framework to be able to work with first nation communities, for them to have longer lead times and autonomy over the types of infrastructure they're investing in for their communities.
9:20 p.m.
NDP
Bonita Zarrillo NDP Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC
That's great. Thank you.
I'll close with this. The minister mentioned the word “social”, which did come up in his presentation today, and you've mentioned it a couple of times. I'm just going to say, for the Bloc member who raised it today.... How can the mandate still be the same? I think there is more focus on social infrastructure and why it matters to build community social safety nets.
Is there a way for the ministry to advise the minister on making changes to the mandates that are given to you? Are you able to see things happening in the data and say, “Send that up to the minister himself”?
9:20 p.m.
Liberal
9:20 p.m.
Deputy Minister, Infrastructure and Communities, Office of Infrastructure of Canada
Yes.
9:20 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Peter Schiefke
Thanks to both of you.
Finally, we have Mr. Seeback.
The floor is yours, Mr. Seeback. You have five minutes, sir.
9:20 p.m.
Conservative
Kyle Seeback Conservative Dufferin—Caledon, ON
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I want to thank you for giving me nine minutes to take us right to 9:30, as I'm a new member—
9:20 p.m.
Voices
Oh, oh!
9:20 p.m.
Conservative
Kyle Seeback Conservative Dufferin—Caledon, ON
No, I'm joking.
I want to go back to the questions my colleague asked about the retrofit of the Fairmont Royal York. Obviously, the mandate for the Infrastructure Bank allows for a project like this, which is a $17-billion equity fund getting a super-discounted interest rate for a project. This project is inside the mandate that was given by the government to the Infrastructure Bank. Is that a fair assessment?
9:20 p.m.
Deputy Minister, Infrastructure and Communities, Office of Infrastructure of Canada
As I mentioned before, the Infrastructure Bank, through the growth plan, was given a mandate to do retrofits and look at the built environment to reduce GHGs and look at different types of investments to be able to allow that to happen.
9:20 p.m.
Conservative
Kyle Seeback Conservative Dufferin—Caledon, ON
Okay.
Was there ever a policy rationale put forward within the department when they were determining this mandate that said it's a great idea that a $17-billion property equity firm should get below prime interest rates to do a renovation that they could already afford to do themselves? Did that policy rationale ever get looked at when they were setting the mandate for the bank?
9:20 p.m.
Deputy Minister, Infrastructure and Communities, Office of Infrastructure of Canada
That wouldn't be a policy. That's an investment decision, and that's under the board of directors' accountability and stewardship, and independent of the government.
That's an investment decision for a particular project, versus a policy decision, which is looking at how we can reduce GHGs in the built environment by retrofitting buildings. We know, from both the private sector and the public sector, that we have a huge challenge in that regard and it can't all be done on the public purse, so looking at alternative financing mechanisms is a way to do that.
9:20 p.m.
Conservative
Kyle Seeback Conservative Dufferin—Caledon, ON
But a $17-billion hedge fund could probably afford a renovation on its own, so I'm trying to understand why the mandate the government gave to the bank was so broad as to allow highly profitable equity firms to access these low-interest loans. Is there an answer to that? There might not be.
9:20 p.m.
Deputy Minister, Infrastructure and Communities, Office of Infrastructure of Canada
I've already answered the question from a policy perspective. In terms of the investment decisions themselves, what I can do is ask the Canada Infrastructure Bank to provide the clerk and the committee with a rationale for why they chose that investment.
9:20 p.m.
Conservative
Kyle Seeback Conservative Dufferin—Caledon, ON
That would be great.
How does this particular funding project address the infrastructure deficit we have?
9:20 p.m.
Deputy Minister, Infrastructure and Communities, Office of Infrastructure of Canada
As I mentioned, the built environment has significant GHGs, and from a climate perspective we do need to reduce our GHGs in the country, so we are looking at alternative financing and a way of financing that supports both private and public buildings in reducing their GHGs.
9:20 p.m.
Conservative
Kyle Seeback Conservative Dufferin—Caledon, ON
Was there any internal department analysis on how many homes the GST rebate would build?
9:20 p.m.
Deputy Minister, Infrastructure and Communities, Office of Infrastructure of Canada
The GST and tax are under the Department of Finance, but the minister mentioned the number of homes, when you were having a discussion with him, as being 200,000 to 300,000 over a decade. The analysis would be for Finance Canada because they are the department that does all of the tax changes for the federal government.