Transport Committee on Oct. 16th, 2023

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

I call this meeting to order.

Welcome to meeting number 81 of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Transport, Infrastructure and Communities.

Pursuant to the order of reference of Tuesday, September 26, 2023, the committee is meeting to discuss its study on Bill C-33, an act to amend the Customs Act, the Railway Safety Act, the Transportation of Dangerous Goods Act, 1992, the Marine Transportation Security Act, the Canada Transportation Act and the Canada Marine Act, and to make a consequential amendment to another act.

Today's meeting is taking place in a hybrid format, pursuant to the House order of Thursday, June 23, 2022. Members are attending in person and joining us using the Zoom application.

Colleagues, appearing before us for the first hour today, we have, from the Canada Border Services Agency, Graeme Hamilton, director general, traveller, commercial and trade policy; and Cathy Toxopeus, director general, transformation, planning and projects. Welcome to you both.

From the Department of Transport, we have Mr. Serge Bijimine, assistant deputy minister, policy; Lisa Setlakwe, assistant deputy minister, safety and security; Sonya Read, director general, marine policy; and Stephen Scott, director general, rail safety. Welcome.

Witnesses, welcome, on behalf of the committee.

We will dive right into it, and I will turn the floor over to Mr. Hamilton for his opening remarks.

You have five minutes.

[Graeme Hamilton, Director General, Traveller, Commercial and Trade Policy, Canada Border Services Agency]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Thank you for the opportunity to appear before the committee this afternoon.

As introduced, I am Graeme Hamilton, director general, traveller, commercial and trade policy, at the Canada Border Services Agency. I am here to speak specifically to the changes to the Customs Act that are included in Bill C-33.

I am joined this afternoon by my colleague, Cathy Toxopeus, who is director general of the transformation, planning and projects directorate.

I will perhaps turn it over to Mr. Bijimine, who will provide remarks on behalf of the entire panel, if that is acceptable.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

That works for us.

We'll go over to you, sir.

[Serge Bijimine, Assistant Deputy Minister, Policy, Department of Transport]

I would be happy to do that. I just want to make sure that folks can hear me with the microphone.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

I don't see anybody saying otherwise, so the floor is yours.

[Serge Bijimine]

That's perfect. Thank you.

I did hear someone from the committee say they will go easy on us, so we're looking forward to that.

Mr. Chair, thank you for the opportunity to appear before the Standing Committee on Transport, Infrastructure and Communities. You did a good job when you introduced the people accompanying me and who will be able to answer questions.

Today we are basically going to talk about Bill C‑33, the Strengthening the Port System and Railway Safety in Canada Act.

Bill C-33 is the combination of two mode-specific reviews that were launched by Transport Canada in 2017 and 2018. The first one was the Railway Safety Act review, and the second one was the ports modernization review. With both reviews completed, and lessons learned from the past year, including the pandemic, we are positioned to modernize the tools used by government, railways and ports.

As you said, the bill contains reforms to six acts: the Customs Act, the Railway Safety Act, the Transportation of Dangerous Goods Act, the Marine Transportation Security Act, the Canada Transportation Act and the Canada Marine Act.

With respect to the proposals in this bill that are aimed at strengthening the rail safety and security regime in Canada, these proposals are meant to do a few things: first, provide Transport Canada with the explicit authority to consult with any interested party on a proposed rule; second, foster the testing of new technologies that would serve to enhance the efficiency of the rail network; third, introduce compliance tools to the regulatory regime; fourth, which is something quite minor but important, broaden the definition of safety to include security; fifth, allow for the introduction of transportation security clearances in the rail sector, which already exist in the aviation sector but we want to bring them into the rail sector; lastly, prohibit dangerous or unruly behaviour on board trains or at stations and prohibit unlawful interference with railway operations.

That's what the rail safety and security side of the bill is meant to do.

On the marine side—ports, in other words—reforms would provide enhanced tools to improve governance and operational performance, and to support a secure marine transportation environment.

In 1998, the Canada Marine Act established the current Canada Port Authorities governance structure. Bill C‑33 presents the first opportunity in 25 years to reform Canada's ports system to meet the needs of Canadians today and in the future.

Specifically, the bill proposes six changes. The first is to reposition ports as strategic gateways critical to the efficiency of national supply chains and transform them into data and analytical hubs. The second is to modernize tools to enhance the minister's ability to consider the impact of port investments on Canada's gateways. The third is to enhance port responsiveness to, and management of, local issues. The fourth is to advance the reconciliation agenda with indigenous peoples. The fifth is to buttress Canada's ambitious climate change commitments. Lastly, the sixth is to support a resilient transportation system that is safe and secure.

Over the last few years, Canadians have experienced supply chain challenges and the associated economic impacts first-hand, including from the COVID-19 pandemic, extreme climate events and changes in trade patterns. These repeated stresses have tested Canada's transportation system and have underscored the importance of supply chain resiliency going hand in hand with system resiliency.

Bill C-33 proposes to serve as a first step—almost a down payment—for a national transportation supply chain strategy.

In closing, I would like to note that, through this bill, the government is committed to improving the competitiveness and efficiency of Canada's supply chains and advancing a transportation system that is safe, secure and resilient.

Thank you.

I'm happy to take any questions.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Thank you very much.

Thank you for your opening remarks.

We'll turn it over to questions. We'll begin our line of questioning today with Mr. Strahl.

We'll turn the floor over to you.

[Mark Strahl, Conservative, Chilliwack—Hope, BC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to the witnesses for being here.

We had certainly hoped that Minister Rodriguez would be available to lead us off on this study of Bill C-33. We understand he's coming much later. Unfortunately, he's not here to lead off the discussion, but we appreciate the officials' being here.

Obviously, our concern with the bill is that it appears to—and it does—increase Ottawa's influence in the port system, specifically with the minister's appointment of the chair, which used to be done by the board of directors at the ports. That's now been taken over by the minister, so it's a bit of an “Ottawa knows best” attitude here.

Part of the concern I have heard from port users, port authorities and others impacted by this legislation has to do with the made-in-Ottawa solutions. It's a solution in search of a problem, to be quite honest. I'm sure we'll get into that more as we debate this and propose amendments and critiques over the next number of meetings.

I want to specifically get into some of the issues at the port of Vancouver. One primary issue that has been raised, or an issue that has become an increasing concern, is the lack of available anchorages for marine vessels coming into and going out of the port to safely anchor and wait for their turn to load or unload. They use anchorages and because of backups in the supply chain, they're using some anchorages that haven't been used all that often over the last number of decades.

This bill really does provide, in my view, an opportunity to shut down some of those anchorages. As we're expanding port capacity and looking to increase vessel traffic to improve economic outcomes for Canadians and to improve on the supply chain, this bill provides a mechanism to shut down anchorages. This is kind of like building a bigger shopping mall and reducing the parking lot. That's how it's been described to me.

Why does Bill C-33 provide for more gatekeepers to shut down more anchorages when, in fact, we need every anchorage that's available? Some are suggesting we need even more.

[Serge Bijimine]

Thank you for the question, Mr. Chair.

What I can say is that, as it is currently written, the bill does not aim to shut down anchorages. However, the bill wants to provide additional power to the port to direct traffic. We're hoping that by having power to direct traffic, the port can get to a place where—by managing traffic more efficiently, managing what goes into the port more efficiently and managing the railways that come into the port more efficiently—the need for anchorages, as we've seen, will likely go down.

The more we increase the fluidity and the efficiencies of the system, the less those anchorages will be needed, but there is no plan to shut them down.

[Mark Strahl, Conservative, Chilliwack—Hope, BC]

One of the things that keep vessels at anchorage instead of at the port, instead of loading or unloading, is the fact that the Port of Vancouver is one of the few jurisdictions in the world that I am aware of, if not the only jurisdiction, that cannot load grain in the rain. This is a long-time problem that has come as a result of safety concerns. Other ports that have the same safety concerns on the west coast of North America have managed to come up with a way to load grain in the rain.

It rains here. It's raining here today in British Columbia. It rains about 170 days a year.

How is it that this bill doesn't provide for a solution to loading grain in the rain, when that is such a barrier to supply chain efficiency at the port of Vancouver?

[Serge Bijimine]

Separate from the bill, we've been engaging with stakeholders in Vancouver around the safety issues related to loading grain in the rain. We continue to work with the stakeholders and the port on this very specific issue to try to get to a solution that will allow some of these activities to continue, but in a safe and secure manner. The safety and security of the workforce always come first. Now it's just about looking at figuring out the right balance to reach the best solution possible. Those discussions are happening. They are taking place. Transport Canada is also right in the middle of it with the various stakeholders.

We didn't feel it was necessarily something that should be addressed in the bill. It's a safety issue that is typically addressed outside of the bill through discussions with the various stakeholders.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Thank you very much.

Thank you, Mr. Strahl.

We'll go to our next line of questioning, from Mr. Rogers.

Mr. Rogers, the floor is yours. You have six minutes, sir.

[Churence Rogers, Liberal, Bonavista—Burin—Trinity, NL]

Thank you, Chair.

Welcome to our witnesses today.

First of all, this supply chain issue has been an ongoing discussion for many years, and we've heard from many different witnesses about how to try to improve our ports and railways to create efficiencies for the future. As our country's population grows, of course, it becomes an even bigger problem because there's more demand for product.

I'll ask the officials if they can tell us a bit about the work of the supply chain task force, for the benefit of the committee and people watching this session, and maybe how it influenced the bill that we're now studying.

[Serge Bijimine]

Sure. Thank you for that. That is a great question.

The supply chain task force report came out last October, I believe, and had a series of recommendations, 21 recommendations in total. I think one in particular was around the ports and the role they play in the supply chain. When we received the report, we were right in the middle of writing our “What we heard” report for the port modernization review, which had started back in 2018, so what we did is that we incorporated elements of the supply chain task force report and basically came out with another report that laid out five key streams of work.

The first one was supporting the competitiveness of Canada's economy by facilitating the movement of goods, and this bill attempts to do that. The second was strengthening relationships with indigenous peoples and local communities, and this bill attempts to do that as well. The third was around promoting environmentally sustainable infrastructure and operations, and this bill attempts to do that as well. It is also enhancing port safety and security and optimizing governance and financial management.

All that is to say that the work we're doing through Bill C-33 is really a down payment on the upcoming national transportation supply chain, and the national supply chain task force report is a report that we often use to feed the policies, regulations and strategy we're hoping to develop in the coming months.

[Churence Rogers, Liberal, Bonavista—Burin—Trinity, NL]

Is it fair to say that of these 21 recommendations from that particular report, a fair number have been incorporated into Bill C-33?

[Serge Bijimine]

I'd say some of them have been incorporated, and others have been incorporated in other avenues as well. We don't have the specific number, but we're happy to do a side-by-side and provide you with the information on what was implemented where and in what form.

[Churence Rogers, Liberal, Bonavista—Burin—Trinity, NL]

I would appreciate that.

Bill C-33, in a few different places throughout the bill, adds reporting requirements on ports. What kind of data is the government looking for and how might it be used?

[Sonya Read, Director General, Marine Policy, Department of Transport]

As you noted, there are a number of provisions that implement new reporting requirements. Broadly, the proposals that establish data collection are intended to support improvements to marine traffic management and port operational efficiency, so that would be the first tranche of data requirements.

In respect of the additional reporting requirements, I would say there are, practically speaking, three broader reporting requirements. The first is around financial reporting, so requirements around the quarterly financial reports and an annual financial report for the port authorities to improve financial transparency and accountability. The second is regarding reporting around their land use planning on a regular basis to ensure that land use plans are public and updated on a regular basis for the benefit of community and local stakeholders, as well as the broader community. The third is reporting to support better transparency in respect of climate change and the port activities in respect of meeting GHG emissions targets, as well as adaptation strategies.

[Churence Rogers, Liberal, Bonavista—Burin—Trinity, NL]

As a committee, we did some travel and covered some ports on the east coast of the country and on the west coast, of course—the major ports. We've been told by different groups that data collection, digitization and so on are important elements of future efficient ports, but we've heard some conflicting views on how much of that should be done from different perspectives. I guess currently the question is, how do we manage ports and how do we see things going forward if this bill is passed?

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Give a short response, please.

[Sonya Read]

We see ports as kind of key hubs in terms of the intermodal connectivity of our transportation system and global supply chain. As a result, they are integral in respect of the data that they are in a position to collect regarding traffic coming in and out from vessels, but also from other elements of the supply chain and other elements of the transportation system. So—

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Thank you, Ms. Read. Unfortunately, I'm going to have to cut you off there, but we can hopefully continue in the next round of questioning.

Thank you very much, Mr. Rogers.

Mr. Barsalou‑Duval, you have the floor for six minutes.

[Xavier Barsalou-Duval, Bloc, Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'd like to thank the witnesses for being with us.

Mr. Bijimine, earlier, in your opening remarks, you mentioned that you were concerned about safety, but also about the fluidity of the supply chain. You also said that Bill C‑33 was intended to improve things, in particular by giving the minister more powers to intervene in this area.

Has the Department of Transport, the Department of Justice or any other department done an analysis to determine whether the additional powers that the provisions would confer on the minister could have consequences or have an impact on the workers' right to strike or their right to free association?

[Serge Bijimine]

I would say no. The bill doesn't affect collective agreements, unions or bargaining rights.

The powers given to the minister really concern health issues. Take the example of the pandemic, during the pandemic, the minister might want to issue a temporary order. These powers would enable him to tell ships to prioritize N95 or other masks.

He has to have the power to do that, but it has nothing to do with labour or unions, which are not the focus here.

[Xavier Barsalou-Duval, Bloc, Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC]

Is there a legal opinion to back this up?

I ask because I consulted the documentation. It seems to me that there was an analysis of the effects of Bill C‑33 on charters, but that aspect wasn't mentioned anywhere. So I was wondering why not.