Transport Committee on Oct. 16th, 2023

[Dan Muys, Conservative, Flamborough—Glanbrook, ON]

No cost analysis has been done as to how much it is going to cost a port, whether it's a small or a large port.

[Sonya Read]

No, we haven't done an independent cost analysis of the financial reporting requirements for ports.

Was that your question?

[Dan Muys, Conservative, Flamborough—Glanbrook, ON]

Has any analysis been done of any of these new requirements, whether it's the reporting requirements or the advisory committees? Are we just sort of flying blind here in trust that this isn't going to impact small ports adversely?

[Sonya Read]

In the context of the proposed changes, we understand that and we are working right now on how we can ensure that we aren't unduly burdening smaller ports in terms of their ability to respond to those new requirements. That includes consideration of whether or not there should be modifications to some of the requirements under the legislation.

[Serge Bijimine]

Just to pick up on what she's saying, there could be openness to looking at how many committees these small ports may end up having or the number of members. What I will say, as well, is that a lot of those amendments are meant to address the issue of transparency across all CPAs and usher in this new era of transparency and openness.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Thank you very much.

Thank you, Mr. Muys.

Next we have Ms. Murray.

Ms. Murray, the floor is yours. You have five minutes.

[Joyce Murray, Liberal, Vancouver Quadra, BC]

Thank you.

Thank you for being here with us today.

I'm interested in the comment on introducing this bill, Bill C-33. You talked about the core of this being efficient, safe, secure, resilient supply chains and transportation, but you also mentioned the port contributions to climate objectives. I would love to hear what form that would take.

Has there been any discussion or preparation to advance the transition from fossil fuel power, for ships that are anchored, to clean power through the provision of clean power at the port? Also, is there any work, any discussion internationally or through Transport Canada—or in this bill—that could lead to a greater use of cleaner energy, as opposed to bunker C fuel in the vessels that come into the port and use its facilities?

[Sonya Read]

In terms of the legislation itself, there are new requirements with the development of five-year plans regarding climate change actions—effectively, GHG mitigation measures that ports would be working through. That can include a range of activities, and there are provisions in the legislation regarding what some of those plans will include, as well as provisions for the development of regulations regarding GHG emission reduction targets for ports.

On the flip side of that, there's also the climate adaptation strategy. There are also reporting requirements for the ports to develop five-year plans regarding adaptation—so how they're going to mitigate the impacts of climate change.

In both instances, there are also requirements for yearly reporting on those five-year plans for ports to explain how they are progressing against those plans.

From a legislative perspective, those are really the key aspects from an internal port perspective. Complementary to that, there are a number of initiatives that are under way.

[Serge Bijimine]

I'll touch on one particular area.

In budget 2023, $165 million was set aside for a green shipping corridor program. That's meant to essentially begin the hard work of decarbonizing the ports, bringing in new clean energy sources, hydrogen hubs, etc. That program is currently being designed, and the hope is that it will be launched before the end of the calendar year. That's an additional thing that's being done.

[Joyce Murray, Liberal, Vancouver Quadra, BC]

That's great to hear. Thank you.

The opening remarks also mentioned improving communication with port communities and local residents. I know that a number of years ago this was certainly something that we at the Port of Vancouver were looking at. I think there are lots of opportunities for the port to be a tourist hub and be more connected with the commerce of downtown Vancouver itself.

Could you talk about how the bill will facilitate greater collaboration and coordination between the city, with its businesses and residents, and the port authority and operations?

[Sonya Read]

There are a number of measures contained in the legislation that would help support that. The first, which we've already talked about, is the advisory committees, which provide a more formalized mechanism for communities to have input into the port operations. This is a recognition that our CPAs don't exist in a vacuum. They don't conduct their operations in a vacuum. They are situated, in most instances, within municipalities and communities. The relationships with those communities are really important in respect of the effective operation of the port. The advisory committees in particular are important mechanisms to ensure that that communication is ongoing.

Another piece of the legislation that supports that is the updating and publication of the land use plans on a more regular basis. This provides a vehicle for the port to explain to the community where it's headed and where it's going. So—

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Thank you very much, Ms. Read. Unfortunately, we have to cut you off once again.

Thank you also, Ms. Murray.

Mr. Barsalou‑Duval, you have two and a half minutes.

[Xavier Barsalou-Duval, Bloc, Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'm going to read three clauses proposed in the bill, and I'll try to do it quickly. The first two would be in the Marine Transportation Security Act, and the third in the Canada Marine Act.

6.1(1) The Minister may make an interim order that contains any provision that may be contained in a regulation made under this Act, if the Minister believes that immediate action is required to deal with a threat or to reduce a direct or indirect risk to the security of marine transportation or to the health of persons involved in the marine transportation system.

17.4(1) If the Minister is of the opinion that there is an immediate threat to the security of marine transportation, including to any person, goods, vessel or marine facility or to the health of persons involved in the marine transportation system, the Minister may direct that any person or vessel do, or refrain from doing, anything that in the opinion of the Minister if necessary to do or refrain from doing in order to respond to the threat….

107.1(1) If the Minister is of the opinion that there is a risk of imminent harm to national security, national economic security or competition that constitutes a significant threat to the safety and security of persons, goods, ships or port facilities or the security of supply chains, the Minister may, by order, require a port authority or a person in charge of a port facility to take any measure, including corrective measures, or stop any activity that the Minister considers necessary to prevent that harm.

It seems to me that these are very broad powers and that the minister wouldn't need anyone's authorization. He wouldn't have to prove anything, just feel that there's a potential danger and order a lot of things. What would be the limit of the minister's powers? I want to know because I get the impression that there would be almost nothing he couldn't do with that.

[Lisa Setlakwe]

What led us to these provisions, in particular, was the situation we experienced with COVID, when we were unable to work with vessels and operations managers to mitigate certain health risks. We can see that the environment is changing enormously, with the risks and dangers that could arise. Of course, these are powers that are given to the minister, but they would be used, as indicated in the bill, in situations where—

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Unfortunately, Mr. Barsalou‑Duval, you're out of time.

[Xavier Barsalou-Duval, Bloc, Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC]

I would have liked to know what couldn't be done with these powers.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Thank you, Ms. Setlakwe.

Next we have Mr. Bachrach.

Mr. Bachrach, the floor is yours. You have two and a half minutes, sir.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

My colleague Mr. Strahl talked a little bit about anchorages. He presented what I think could be characterized as the view of the port authorities, which is that they need more room to park vessels when there's congestion.

I'd like to present a contrary view, that of communities, particularly communities in the southern Gulf Islands, which have seen incredibly ecologically sensitive areas very close to their communities turned into industrial parking lots. I know that this is a concern you're familiar with.

Does Bill C-33 include provisions that allow the minister to intervene on behalf of communities and prevent those areas from being used as industrial parking lots by shipping companies?

[Sonya Read]

The legislation includes a clarification of the mandate of ports in respect of the traffic management for vessels entering into port waters.

There is concurrently work that's under way with the VFPA, which some of you may be familiar with, in terms of how traffic is better managed throughout the southern Gulf Islands, to ensure we are mitigating the community concerns around the use of those anchorages. That's for a number of reasons. One of the key things that vessel traffic management will enable is the mitigation of those types of issues that you've raised, including where ships are anchored, how long they're anchored and then the activities they are conducting while they're at anchorage, to ensure they are respecting both the environment and the community concerns in the surrounding areas.

It's a combination of the legislation and the activities that would be undertaken by the ports, as they have the authorities to be able to direct traffic.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Currently, the use of those anchorages is entirely at the discretion of the port authority. Does this bill change that in any way?

[Sonya Read]

Anchorages are effectively a common-law right for safe navigation, so there are a number of protocols and regulations across government that impact how vessels can conduct their operations at those anchorages. The port authority has an interim protocol in place and is working with vessels to ensure they are moving along, in terms of improving how they're operating and improving the use of the anchorages in the southern Gulf Islands.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Thank you very much, Ms. Read.

Thank you, Mr. Bachrach.

Next we have Mr. Muys, once again.

The floor is yours for five minutes, please.

[Dan Muys, Conservative, Flamborough—Glanbrook, ON]

My colleague Mr. Barsalou-Duval wanted to know what the minister can't do. I don't think he quite got the answer he wanted, or certainly not an elaboration.

One thing we know the minister can do is appoint the chair, and I know that question has been asked a couple of times. The point has been made that already there's tardiness in making appointments to the port authority boards. If the port authorities are to be at arm's length from the government, which is the intention, it seems a step backwards that the government is appointing the chair. Why is this bill reducing the ports' independence in that sense and imposing an “Ottawa knows best” approach?

[Serge Bijimine]

I'll just walk you a little bit through the actual process of how that would take place. The minister would appoint the chair from the group of directors of the port. He would not parachute in a chair from somewhere else. It would be someone who is a director within that port, and this would be done in consultation with the board members. It's not a stranger being parachuted in; it's someone who is already part of that board of directors. The minister, in consultation with the board of directors, would pick the chair.

That's the way the legislation has been written. That's the way we currently intend to propose that it be brought forward.

[Dan Muys, Conservative, Flamborough—Glanbrook, ON]

To switch gears, maybe you can elaborate a bit on how Bill C-33 promotes private sector investment and involvement in the transportation sector, particularly in response to the ports modernization review. One of the objectives there is unleashing the potential of the private sector.