Transport Committee on Oct. 23rd, 2023

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Thank you very much, Mr. Muys.

Thank you, Mr. Dekovic.

Mr. Stéphane Lauzon is up next.

Mr. Lauzon, welcome to the Standing Committee on Transport, Infrastructure and Communities.

You have five minutes.

[Stéphane Lauzon, Liberal, Argenteuil—La Petite-Nation, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I'm pleased to join this committee.

I want to thank the witnesses for coming today.

I would like to share my time with Ms. Elizabeth May.

Mr. McConchie, you spoke a lot about environmental challenges, and we are very concerned about this, particularly in light of the increased number of vessels at anchor.

Do you keep records of emissions produced by vessels at anchor? Twenty years ago, there was little concern for such emissions, but that is no longer the case today.

At present, do you conduct an environmental assessment for each vessel at anchor?

[Bruce McConchie]

Yes. As I mentioned earlier, each vessel.... It's been calculated. The diesel generators on board emit some 10 tonnes of CO2 per ship per day. Multiply that by 5,900 anchoring days, and that's quite impressive.

Also, as I mentioned earlier, the provincial government has recognized the area. It is a very sensitive zone for air movement. Who's at risk? The people who are living there. It becomes a health concern just from the emissions alone. Then add in the amount of fuel burned in transit to these anchorages. It takes some four or five hours to transit up to these anchorages, and then back they go to their port eventually.

You have continuous transits, which are burning the main engine fuels, and then at anchor they are burning the diesel in on-board generators.

[Stéphane Lauzon, Liberal, Argenteuil—La Petite-Nation, QC]

Could you tell us a bit about the devastating impact that an oil spill could have, given how many such vessels there are? What action should we be taking?

I believe you have some experience in environmental issues. What measures should we take in the event of an oil spill? What measures should be included in legislation to respond to that kind of situation?

[Bruce McConchie]

That's the problem. The waters are very narrow. Winter storms race up through these waters, and there is no ability for the port of Vancouver or anybody to have continuous monitoring of them. The Coast Guard has told me that, if it swings on an anchor drag outside of its swing radius, which has been mapped, some bells will go off and they will call the ship's agent. Don't you think that's a little late?

What happened right next to me in Plumper Sound, right in front of me.... I was home that day. We looked out to see two vessels that had collided. Those were the vessels in 2020. As a result of that, the marine transportation safety investigation report stated that there were, “Between January 2015 and March 2020, a total of 102 dragging...occurrences along the BC coastline”.

We were lucky. We dodged a bullet. Back in 2009, the Hebei Lion grounded on a reef in the Navy Channel, just up the water from where I live. The only reason that did not create a spill at the time was that there was a rising tide, and they were able to float it off beforehand.

Since then, there have been more and more incidents. If you check the Pacific Pilotage Authority, they have to send a pilot out to reposition a vessel when it goes outside of its swing radius. That's happened numerous times, and it's ever-increasing. That is our huge worry.

[Stéphane Lauzon, Liberal, Argenteuil—La Petite-Nation, QC]

Thanks for your answer.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Thank you, Monsieur Lauzon.

We'll now turn it over to Ms. May for one question.

You have one minute and 15 seconds, Ms. May.

[Elizabeth May, Green, Saanich—Gulf Islands, BC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

I'm going to switch to English.

To Bruce McConchie, my question is.... You've outlined pretty clearly the economic downsides, the ecological risks and damage, and the impact on people's quality of life. To your knowledge, does this also impact indigenous rights? These are waters within the territories of the W̱sáneć people. Have they been consulted by Transport Canada? Have they given permission for these anchorages?

[Bruce McConchie]

There has been little to no consultation with any coastal residents or any of our coastal first nations with regard to that.

All of us have replied in opposition to what is going on there with very little feedback from the current federal ministry of transport.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Thank you very much, Ms. May.

Thank you, Mr. McConchie.

Mr. Barsalou‑Duval, you have two and a half minutes.

[Xavier Barsalou-Duval, Bloc, Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. McConchie, I must say that I'm quite sensitive to the picture you are painting for us. I live in a riding that borders the St. Lawrence River, and sometimes my constituents call me to tell me about a problem with vessels anchoring in front of their home. They tell me how unbearably loud it is at night and how they can't sleep. They see people walking on the boat deck across from them and doing all their daily activities. Sometimes, the vessels are anchored there for a long time.

You're here to talk about Bill C‑33, but I wonder whether the government doesn't already have the means, if the political will exists, to limit the anchorage of vessels in proximity to homes or in environmentally sensitive areas, or to require vessels to relocate outside those areas. If you have any good amendments to suggest, I'll support them, but I still wonder whether the government doesn't already have the means to resolve these issues.

[Bruce McConchie]

In the Prime Minister's mandate letter to the transport minister, it actually says, “I expect you to seek opportunities within your portfolio to support our whole-of-government effort to reduce emissions, create clean jobs and address the climate-related challenges communities are already facing.” It's in the mandate letter.

The purpose of the act provides for the preservation of safety and the environment. Can you strengthen that in the language to give the Minister of Transport pressure to act with regard to that, so that we can finally see an end to this, the damaging ecological aspects of it and the potentially horrific, catastrophic oil spill that is inevitable?

[Xavier Barsalou-Duval, Bloc, Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC]

Do you believe this can be achieved by supporting the amendments to Bill C‑33?

I don't think that you have really answered my question, which was whether legislation or other means already exist. I didn't get an answer but I think that the federal government already has the means to prohibit vessels from anchoring in an environmentally sensitive area or a few metres from homes, which risks destroying people's quality of life.

To your knowledge, do the means to prevent this not already exist, rather than amending Bill C‑33?

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Please make it a 15-second response.

[Bruce McConchie]

The minister has the authority under the Canada Shipping Act to stop it right now. We've now gone through three transport ministers who have ignored us and our pleas for this to take place. Our concern in this bill is the words under proposed paragraph (f.2), “manage traffic, including mooring and anchorage”. Those words in there suddenly open up the fact that the federal government is willing to accept these things.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Thank you very much, Mr. McConchie.

Thank you, Mr. Barsalou‑Duval.

Concluding our line of questioning this evening, we have Ms. Zarrillo.

Ms. Zarrillo, the floor is yours. You have two and a half minutes.

[Bonita Zarrillo, NDP, Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC]

Thank you so much.

I am a B.C. resident and I am very concerned, as are many of the residents I speak to, about the resident killer whales.

Can you expand a little bit on the importance of this and on the impacts these anchorages are having in the Gulf Islands?

[Bruce McConchie]

There's tremendous impact. In fact, those whales have become so important that, as I mentioned just a little bit earlier, an interim order has just come out restricting vessel traffic—any private vessel traffic or any traffic—in certain areas of the waters right around where I live near the Pender Islands and near Saturna Island, yet it still allows these large ships to go cruising past them at whatever speed they choose.

For the southern resident killer whales, it's so important to preserve their foraging grounds and their ability to communicate with each other. We have to be very cautious not to impact that too much, or we're going to lose that very precious resource.

[Bonita Zarrillo, NDP, Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC]

Thank you so much.

My last question is for Ms. Gee, and it really relates to climate change. We haven't had a lot of discussion about the impact of climate change on supply chains. I was thinking about the trains, and I know that in the lower Fraser and in the Fraser Valley recently, there was catastrophic flooding that really limited the number of vehicles that could get in and out, whether by rail or road.

I just wonder if you could expand on how much climate change is affecting land transportation right now, whether that be rail or road.

[Bonnie Gee]

There have really been some unprecedented events in recent years, and we certainly need more resilient infrastructure. Definitely it has an impact throughout the supply chain. We're definitely all interested in trying to reduce GHG emissions where possible.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Thank you very much, Ms. Zarrillo.

Thank you, Ms. Gee.

On behalf of all committee members, I would like to thank all of our witnesses who have joined us and provided us their testimony this evening, either virtually or in person.

With that, colleagues, we're going to go into committee business. I will suspend for five minutes to allow the team to make the necessary changes. I invite all the witnesses to log off.

Thank you, all, very much. We are now suspended.

[Proceedings continue in camera]