Transport Committee on Oct. 30th, 2023

[Rick McLellan]

Absolutely, because a lot of times, when you get these types of projects or opportunities for growth, the rail aspect of it is often forgotten. We have the port infrastructure and all that work that goes into allowing more business through ports, be it dry goods, containers or whatever. Often, we forget about the small rail piece that is an integral part of the operation.

I can tell you that the majority of the Port of Trois-Rivières is rail-served, and the customers have grown accustomed to the service we provide. In their port expansions, they have lots of programs and opportunities to expand their footprint at the port.

There's a rail component missing, and we'll do our best to be a part of that expansion program, but I think it's important that you look at both sides of the equation.

[Vance Badawey, Liberal, Niagara Centre, ON]

I think it goes without saying that to be successful at integrating binational supply chains, we have to begin by integrating our binational transportation infrastructure. Combined capital planning and the investments for the same are critical.

Again, going a bit deeper, do you find that it is not only critical that the rail lines integrate that planning, but that you also work with other methods of transportation, such as marine, air and road?

[Rick McLellan]

Absolutely, we ourselves, particularly, don't necessarily deal with air, but we definitely deal with road. We definitely deal with ports, and all the other modes of transportation, and in some circumstances even passenger trains.

Definitely, it's a multimodal perspective, and hence the remarks that we've made and I've made regarding the importance of having that regulator, or that overseer of the port. It's important to have the vision of the entire picture, as opposed to just one vision where you lack on opportunity and, potentially, you don't get the growth you're looking for.

[Vance Badawey, Liberal, Niagara Centre, ON]

We're looking at really becoming a pressure valve. I'll give you an example. In Niagara, we have the Hamilton-Niagara corridor. We have a trade corridor that's been created between the Hamilton-Oshawa Port Authority and Niagara, in general, along the Welland Canal corridor.

We sometimes see the need for a pressure valve for Munro, sometimes Pearson, and the smaller airports in Niagara. They can act as that pressure valve. They have a shoreline right next to them. They have the canal right there, and they have the road which obviously goes to the international bridges.

Do you see your shoreline operation really playing a bigger part in that, especially with the proper capital investments?

[Rick McLellan]

Absolutely. With some of the services we provide, we look for capacity. When you look at ports, you look at customers that are receiving inbound and outbound traffic. Sometimes there are periods where you have too much traffic, too much to deal with, so we like to provide alternatives to our stakeholders, such as storage opportunities just outside, and not too far away where we're able to give them what they need.

That's the type of service we've been providing to the port authority. The air is more like a hand to mouth, because everybody's needs are different. Sometimes customers are having a hard time going through the bunching of their product, or what have you, and they need an alternative. We provide that alternative, and sometimes that alternative requires investment, so that's probably where we would look at it.

[Vance Badawey, Liberal, Niagara Centre, ON]

Do you find yourself, Mr. McLellan, working within that, integrating logistics and distribution with all methods of transportation?

[Rick McLellan]

Yes, absolutely.

[Vance Badawey, Liberal, Niagara Centre, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Thank you very much, Mr. Badawey.

You have the floor for two and a half minutes, Mr. Barsalou‑Duval.

[Xavier Barsalou-Duval, Bloc, Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Ms. Ursule Boyer‑Villemaire, Bill C‑33 includes climate change plans for ports. The latter should therefore have a climate change adaptation plan as well as a greenhouse gas emissions plan.

Do you think this responsibility should be only for the ports? Shouldn't there be a broader vision for the entire marine industry to reduce its carbon footprint?

[Ursule Boyer-Villemaire]

Definitely. Implementing these plans and adopting adaptation objectives requires coordination, not only within the sector, but also the region. As I was saying, a regional approach to adaptation has been put forward in Canada's national adaptation strategy and promoted by Natural Resources Canada. Accordingly, it's important to factor in not only…

[Xavier Barsalou-Duval, Bloc, Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC]

Thank you. I'm sorry to be interrupting you, but I don't have much time left.

Mr. Campbell, earlier today, I spoke about secret exemptions for a number of railway companies to allow them to use automated systems that replace human workers, and which were condemned by a number of union groups. Some of the railway companies that appeared, or at least CN, mentioned that the company would be open to the idea of these exemptions from Transport Canada being made public.

From an outsider's point of view, what impression do you think the these secret safety exemptions send to the public? Don't you expect such exemptions to always be published and made public?

[Bruce Campbell]

I think there's room to expand what's accessible to the larger public. I look at the recommendations of this standing committee. There are 30-some recommendations, and amongst them are recommendations for great transparency. I would ask you to judge whether the amendments that Transport Canada has put into this legislation are sufficient to meet the recommendations of the committee.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Thank you.

[Bruce Campbell]

Look at fatigue management, for example. Do they meet the requests of the standing committee?

There's been lots of back and forth between the companies and the—

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Thank you, Mr. Campbell.

We appreciate your enthusiasm. You can send us an email with any future thoughts that you would like to share with us, and we'll include that in your testimony.

[Bruce Campbell]

I do have some.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Perfect.

Mr. Bachrach, you will be clearing the bases for us, to use a good Montreal Expos term.

The floor is yours. You have two and have minutes, sir.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'll ask my last question of Madame Boyer-Villemaire.

As I think she's aware, this bill in front of us includes provisions that would require ports to publish five-year climate plans. My observation is that there are a lot of corporate climate plans out there that are essentially a collection of activities, but don't have enough rigour. They're not robust enough to actually hold those entities accountable for driving down emissions and contributing to the national ambitions around climate action.

What characteristics does she believe must be included in those climate plans to ensure that they're worth the paper that they're written on?

[Ursule Boyer-Villemaire]

The first part of my answer is that the plan, as soon as it is released, is already behind in terms of the actions that are required. The knowledge evolves very rapidly in terms of risks, so I think the process of doing the plan will gather the most impact in how people collaborate to reach those objectives, and that's what's going to make people more accountable, I think.

If you regulate the process more, rather than the output of it, then you make sure that people are at the table and are conscious that the choices they make have consequences for the security and the well-being of the population.

Yes, the plan is there. It's a five-year horizon. However, we have to plan much further ahead in terms of climate change and the long-term life of that kind of infrastructure.

I don't have a magic key or process that could ensure that people are accountable, other than saying that one has to focus also on the process rather than only the output.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Thank you very much, Mr. Bachrach, Ms. Boyer‑Villemaire, Mr. Campbell and Mr. McLellan. It was a pleasure having you here this evening.

We thank you very much for your testimony.

With that, I will adjourn the meeting.