Evidence of meeting #11 for Transport, Infrastructure and Communities in the 45th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was drivers.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Conservative
Dan Albas Conservative Okanagan Lake West—South Kelowna, BC
Thank you.
I'm going to ask MLA Bhangu some questions.
We've heard today that there's a false narrative being presented here and that when we've used the term Driver Inc., somehow it's a talking point for industry. I'm speaking on behalf of the people I represent. What about you?
Member of the Legislative Assembly of British Columbia, Jobs and Economic Development Critic, As an Individual
Yes. To say that it's the racial tensions.... I'm a person of colour myself. I'm in the trucking industry. I've had people of colour tell me that this needs to be addressed. It is a concern for them.
Maybe if you have an LMIA coming to you and you have ways to circumvent it.... If there are ways, then maybe you don't want change. However, I'll tell you that a lot of the hard-working Canadians who have come here and built a life for themselves in this industry want to play by the rules, and they expect others to play by the rules.
Conservative
Dan Albas Conservative Okanagan Lake West—South Kelowna, BC
We've heard from other witnesses that when these LMIAs are received and offered to individual workers who are exploited, essentially they've been told, “There's a quid pro quo. I'll get you a vehicle. We'll get you set up with an incorporation, but you're going to work for me.” They're going to be paid far less. It's sometimes, I think, 30¢ or 32¢ per kilometre—or maybe it's per mile—for the industry. The thing is that it's usually 72¢ for much of the rest of the industry, so it's impossible for them to compete. Also, I think it's impossible for them to basically do all the things you'd expect, like the maintenance of a truck.
What other shortcuts do you think are being taken by those who are put in these positions? What have you heard?
Member of the Legislative Assembly of British Columbia, Jobs and Economic Development Critic, As an Individual
In British Columbia, we've had a huge issue with overpass strikes and a lot of terrible accidents that have happened, unfortunately. What we have been realizing is that a lot of carriers have temporary foreign workers or new drivers on there, and they're literally told, “Hey, if you don't move this load, you're not staying in this country.” This is not false; this is a reality. I have been in the industry. For people to say that this does not happen is completely ludicrous, and that's where the general public realizes there's an issue right here.
Conservative
Dan Albas Conservative Okanagan Lake West—South Kelowna, BC
Thank you for your testimony.
I'll pass the rest of my time to my colleague Mr. Lawrence.
October 21st, 2025 / 4:35 p.m.
Conservative
Philip Lawrence Conservative Northumberland—Clarke, ON
Thank you.
Mr. Vishwanth, I just want to confirm some of your earlier testimony. You stated that the laws should be updated to allow those truck drivers who don't own trucks to incorporate. Is that correct?
Policy Adviser, Canada Truck Operators Association
I would say that it would have the effect of modernizing the law—
Conservative
Philip Lawrence Conservative Northumberland—Clarke, ON
Currently, those who don't have trucks are not allowed to incorporate. Is that correct?
Policy Adviser, Canada Truck Operators Association
No, that's not correct. That's not what the rules state. The rules say that you have to take a holistic approach.
Conservative
Philip Lawrence Conservative Northumberland—Clarke, ON
What the rules say, according to the Supreme Court, is that there are a number of factors. One of the key factors is ownership of tools. It's very difficult, the Supreme Court has said, for you to be legally allowed to incorporate.... Well, you're allowed to incorporate, but you're not allowed to call yourself an independent contractor. They actually deem you to be an employee. It's very, very difficult to do that without the ownership of your tools.
You said earlier in your testimony that the laws should be changed to allow truck drivers who do not own a truck to become incorporated. That was your testimony earlier.
Policy Adviser, Canada Truck Operators Association
There are two parts. First, that's not what the Supreme Court jurisprudence says, and I did not say you should change it. I said you should obtain it with voluntariness, because that is the problem everyone seems to have. They're saying that somehow businesses force drivers to incorporate.
Conservative
Philip Lawrence Conservative Northumberland—Clarke, ON
With respect, sir, you said earlier—we can read the record back to you—that if in fact you don't own a truck, you cannot incorporate. Now you're changing that testimony. Is that true?
Conservative
Philip Lawrence Conservative Northumberland—Clarke, ON
You absolutely did. You said the laws should be modernized to allow for the—
Liberal
Liberal
Iqwinder Gaheer Liberal Mississauga—Malton, ON
It was my line of questioning that raised his testimony. I think the witness knows what he said.
Conservative
Philip Lawrence Conservative Northumberland—Clarke, ON
That's not a valid point of order.
This is my time, and I want my time put back.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Peter Schiefke
Your time was stopped. We'll give you the time you need.
If there are questions on what a witness said, we can refer back to the notes that have been taken and to Hansard, if necessary.
Conservative
Philip Lawrence Conservative Northumberland—Clarke, ON
Yes.
You clearly said, sir, that the laws need to be changed to allow those truckers who do not own trucks to incorporate. Are you now changing your testimony, sir?
Policy Adviser, Canada Truck Operators Association
I said to update it, sir, not change it. You can't change the law. It probably has the same effect—
Conservative
Philip Lawrence Conservative Northumberland—Clarke, ON
I'm asking about your testimony, not the law. Are you changing your testimony now?
Policy Adviser, Canada Truck Operators Association
What exactly is your question?
Conservative
Philip Lawrence Conservative Northumberland—Clarke, ON
You said earlier in your testimony that the laws need to be changed to allow those who don't own trucks to become incorporated. I mean, you were clearly implying that in order to incorporate, you need to own a truck. Are you now changing that testimony, sir?
Policy Adviser, Canada Truck Operators Association
No. I think you misunderstood.
That is the current ESDC approach. If you don't own a truck or are an owner-operator, they deem to classify it as an employee-employer relationship. That's their current stance on it. I think that's wrong. Someone has to take it to the Supreme Court and have it tested.