Evidence of meeting #23 for Transport, Infrastructure and Communities in the 45th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was procurement.

A video is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

Members speaking

Before the committee

Gary Anandasangaree  Minister of Public Safety
Lloyd  Deputy Director, Canadian Security Intelligence Service
Bilodeau  Senior Assistant Deputy Minister, National and Cybersecurity Branch, Department of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness
Bamford  Vice-President, Business Development, Prince Rupert Port Authority
Xotta  President and Chief Executive Officer, Vancouver Fraser Port Authority
Métivier  Mayor, Ville de Matane
Moraes  Director, Government and External Relations, Prince Rupert Port Authority

5:50 p.m.

Director, Government and External Relations, Prince Rupert Port Authority

Kevin Moraes

Our role continues to be very focused on ensuring the appropriate duty of consultation. We do this on behalf of the Crown. We do it in collaboration with different Crown entities, such as Transport Canada, Environment Canada and other relevant regulators involved.

5:50 p.m.

Conservative

Dan Albas Conservative Okanagan Lake West—South Kelowna, BC

Are you familiar with Metlakatla First Nation?

5:50 p.m.

Director, Government and External Relations, Prince Rupert Port Authority

Kevin Moraes

Yes, we are. They're one of our six first nations.

Dan Albas Conservative Okanagan Lake West—South Kelowna, BC

Metlakatla's traditional territory includes the lands and waters within the boundaries of the port of Prince Rupert. Is that correct?

5:50 p.m.

Director, Government and External Relations, Prince Rupert Port Authority

Kevin Moraes

They are one of the six nations. That's correct.

5:50 p.m.

Conservative

Dan Albas Conservative Okanagan Lake West—South Kelowna, BC

PRPA has a duty to consult and accommodate them on decisions that affect Metlakatla interests. Is that correct, sir?

5:50 p.m.

Director, Government and External Relations, Prince Rupert Port Authority

Kevin Moraes

We go through a consultation process to assess accommodation. Those consultation processes look at social and traditional use impacts. We work through a process related to that project.

5:50 p.m.

Conservative

Dan Albas Conservative Okanagan Lake West—South Kelowna, BC

Is it true that the Prince Rupert Port Authority failed to inform Metlakatla that it had granted extraordinary contractual rights to a Dutch oil and gas company for handling bulk liquid products in the port of Prince Rupert?

5:50 p.m.

Director, Government and External Relations, Prince Rupert Port Authority

Kevin Moraes

The consultation process involved in any project looks at traditional use and other social impacts related to the six nations.

5:50 p.m.

Conservative

Dan Albas Conservative Okanagan Lake West—South Kelowna, BC

Is it true that the port failed to inform this first nations community, sir?

5:50 p.m.

Director, Government and External Relations, Prince Rupert Port Authority

Kevin Moraes

The question—

5:50 p.m.

Conservative

Dan Albas Conservative Okanagan Lake West—South Kelowna, BC

It's yes or no.

5:50 p.m.

Director, Government and External Relations, Prince Rupert Port Authority

Kevin Moraes

The question you raised is around commercial agreements. We at the Prince Rupert Port Authority focus on long-term terminal operating agreements that incentivize investment and performance while ensuring that the gateway remains open and accessible to diverse shippers. PRPA continues to support growth and diversification aspirations—

5:50 p.m.

Conservative

Dan Albas Conservative Okanagan Lake West—South Kelowna, BC

It was a simple yes-or-no question.

You are aware that the PRPA granted those contractual rights in 2015 and that those extraordinary contractual rights are now held by Vopak Development Canada Incorporated and AltaGas Limited. Is that correct?

That's a yes-or-no question.

5:50 p.m.

Director, Government and External Relations, Prince Rupert Port Authority

Kevin Moraes

I will say this, then: Given that this matter is before the courts, it would be inappropriate to comment any further on that.

5:50 p.m.

Conservative

Dan Albas Conservative Okanagan Lake West—South Kelowna, BC

It doesn't sound as though you are being transparent with this committee.

Are you aware that Vopak, AltaGas and the PRPA have refused to disclose to the Metlakatla the contractual terms that the PRPA and Vopak agreed to in 2015?

5:50 p.m.

Director, Government and External Relations, Prince Rupert Port Authority

Kevin Moraes

Those are commercial agreements. We have commercial agreements with many partners in the region.

More importantly—

5:50 p.m.

Conservative

Dan Albas Conservative Okanagan Lake West—South Kelowna, BC

It is a yes-or-no question.

5:50 p.m.

Director, Government and External Relations, Prince Rupert Port Authority

Kevin Moraes

They are commercial agreements. I could probably say that we do not disclose commercial agreements, as they are confidential, sensitive agreements.

5:50 p.m.

Conservative

Dan Albas Conservative Okanagan Lake West—South Kelowna, BC

Do you realize that you're at a parliamentary committee, sir? I've asked you a direct question.

5:50 p.m.

Director, Government and External Relations, Prince Rupert Port Authority

Kevin Moraes

I would state again that commercial agreements are confidential.

5:50 p.m.

Conservative

Dan Albas Conservative Okanagan Lake West—South Kelowna, BC

Please note, Mr. Chair, that the port is not being co-operative.

I'll try this: Would you not agree that the Metlakatla are entitled to know what specific contractual rights Vopak and AltaGas hold in their traditional territory?

5:50 p.m.

Director, Government and External Relations, Prince Rupert Port Authority

Kevin Moraes

I will ask, then, whether that is a matter of duty of consultation put forward as part of the Crown. It's not, to my understanding, but I will circle back with our legal...to better understand that and maybe take it up with you off-line, if that helps.

5:50 p.m.

Conservative

Dan Albas Conservative Okanagan Lake West—South Kelowna, BC

I don't think you need to take it up with me off-line, sir. Again, these are not my constituents.

However, the committee asked you a question. I think you can submit it to the clerk and the chair. I appreciate that you have a business to run, but I also believe that, in the House, we have questions to ask. We expect to have accountability, whether it be from the government itself or their agents.

Thank you.

The Chair Liberal Peter Schiefke

Thank you very much, Mr. Albas.

Next we'll go to Mr. Greaves.

Mr. Greaves, the floor is yours. You have six minutes, sir.