Evidence of meeting #23 for Transport, Infrastructure and Communities in the 45th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was procurement.
A video is available from Parliament.
Liberal
Gary Anandasangaree Liberal Scarborough—Guildwood—Rouge Park, ON
Please allow me to continue.
Essentially, we have a buy Canada mandate across government. We want to be able to buy Canadian at every opportunity, especially when federal procurement dollars are at work. We want our economy to be built as a Québécois and Canadian economy, but in areas where that may not—
Bloc
Xavier Barsalou-Duval Bloc Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC
I just told you that this procurement doesn't apply, according to your own government or the people who speak on your behalf.
You didn't answer my question either. If Via Rail were to decide to buy from a country that could potentially engage in foreign interference, would you have any say in the matter, yes or no?
Liberal
Gary Anandasangaree Liberal Scarborough—Guildwood—Rouge Park, ON
Federal procurements are different. Maybe Mr. Bilodeau can respond.
Senior Assistant Deputy Minister, National and Cybersecurity Branch, Department of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness
Thank you.
It's a slightly different situation, given that the purchase is made in a federal government context.
Our colleagues at Transport Canada also have access to information from our colleagues at the Canadian Security Intelligence Service, or CSIS, to support certain decisions. It's a slightly different context.
Ms. Lloyd and her team work with other intelligence services to provide information to decision‑makers in order to enlighten them. It's much easier to support this type of information in a federal procurement situation.
Bloc
Xavier Barsalou-Duval Bloc Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC
Do you plan to apply this to the CIB?
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Peter Schiefke
Thank you, Mr. Barsalou‑Duval and Mr. Bilodeau.
Next we have Mr. Gunn.
Welcome to committee. The floor is yours. You have five minutes, sir.
Conservative
Aaron Gunn Conservative North Island—Powell River, BC
Perfect. Thank you, Chair.
Minister, my first question is for you. Do you believe China's Communist regime poses a security threat to Canada?
Liberal
Gary Anandasangaree Liberal Scarborough—Guildwood—Rouge Park, ON
I would say, Mr. Gunn, that Canada is in a moment when it is expanding trade. As I said earlier and as the Prime Minister has said, we will meet the countries where they're at, not where we want them to be. With respect to China—
Conservative
Liberal
Gary Anandasangaree Liberal Scarborough—Guildwood—Rouge Park, ON
With respect to China, we have an MOU to address the issues around safety and security in both countries.
Conservative
Aaron Gunn Conservative North Island—Powell River, BC
I'll be a bit more direct. Do you have evidence that the Communist regime in Beijing has previously targeted Canadian institutions or strategic assets with cyber-attacks and other forms of espionage?
Liberal
Gary Anandasangaree Liberal Scarborough—Guildwood—Rouge Park, ON
Yes, there have been reports of that in the past. Some of them have been documented.
Conservative
Aaron Gunn Conservative North Island—Powell River, BC
You're the Minister of Public Safety. Do you have evidence?
Liberal
Gary Anandasangaree Liberal Scarborough—Guildwood—Rouge Park, ON
There's definitely documented evidence of that, yes.
Conservative
Aaron Gunn Conservative North Island—Powell River, BC
Do you have evidence that the Communist regime in Beijing has targeted the House of Commons and the private information of parliamentarians?
Liberal
Gary Anandasangaree Liberal Scarborough—Guildwood—Rouge Park, ON
I will say, for the purpose of this particular transaction, that this procurement was undertaken by the Province of British Columbia.
Conservative
Liberal
Gary Anandasangaree Liberal Scarborough—Guildwood—Rouge Park, ON
There have been a number of incidents. I'm not sure we're here to litigate every one of them.
Liberal
Gary Anandasangaree Liberal Scarborough—Guildwood—Rouge Park, ON
There is a need right now for Canada to ensure that it is clear-eyed and ensure that it has a track that deals with safety and security. That is something we're doing.
Conservative
Aaron Gunn Conservative North Island—Powell River, BC
That's fair. Minister, I appreciate your openness and honesty.
I just want to make sure we're on the record—because I think it's a position that you can hold—that you think it's reasonable to use taxpayer money to help subsidize the procurement of critically important transportation infrastructure from a regime that is currently engaged in espionage and other cybercrimes against Canada. You think that is reasonable.
That's what's happening.
Liberal
Gary Anandasangaree Liberal Scarborough—Guildwood—Rouge Park, ON
As I've said a number of times, the procurement was undertaken by the Government of British Columbia. This is—
Conservative
Aaron Gunn Conservative North Island—Powell River, BC
It was taxpayer money. It was federal tax dollars.
Liberal
Gary Anandasangaree Liberal Scarborough—Guildwood—Rouge Park, ON
This is within their purview. The Canada Infrastructure Bank was a funder in this.
Conservative
Aaron Gunn Conservative North Island—Powell River, BC
Do you regret that taxpayer money was used to bankroll the purchase?