Evidence of meeting #25 for Transport, Infrastructure and Communities in the 45th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was gaspésie.

A video is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

Members speaking

Before the committee

St-Onge  Spokesperson, Coalition pour le retour des services d'un train de passagers en Gaspésie
Paquette  Interim President and Chief Executive Officer, VIA Rail Canada Inc.
Blackwell  Vice-President, Mechanical Operations and Asset Management, VIA Rail Canada Inc.
Lavoie  Chief Legal, Risk and Safety Officer, VIA Rail Canada Inc.
Ducrot  Vice-President, Customer Experience and Network Operations, VIA Rail Canada Inc.
Smith  Chief Executive Officer, Corner Brook Port Corporation
Penner  Advisor, Cruise Lines International Association
Bell Estabrooks  Chief Executive Officer, Saint John Port Authority

The Chair Liberal Peter Schiefke

Welcome to meeting number 25 of the Standing Committee on Transport, Infrastructure and Communities.

Pursuant to Standing Order 108(2) and the motion adopted by the committee on Thursday, December 11, the committee is resuming its study on improving Via Rail security and customer service.

Today's meeting is taking place in a hybrid format, pursuant to the Standing Orders. I'd like to make a few comments for the benefit of our witnesses and our members.

Please wait until I recognize you by name before speaking. For those participating by video conference, click on the microphone icon to activate your mic and please mute yourself when you are not speaking. For those on Zoom, at the bottom of your screen you can select the appropriate channel for interpretation: floor, English or French. Those in the room can use the earpiece and select the desired channel.

I will remind you that all comments should be addressed through the chair. For members in the room, if you wish to speak, please raise your hand. For members on Zoom, please use the “raise hand” function. The clerk and I will manage the speaking order as best as we can. We appreciate your patience and understanding in this regard.

Colleagues, I'd like to now welcome our witnesses for the first panel today.

From the Coalition pour le retour des services d’un train de passagers en Gaspésie, we have Ms. Micheline St‑Onge.

Welcome.

From Via Rail Canada Inc., we have Mathieu Paquette, interim president and chief executive officer; Graham Blackwell, vice-president, mechanical operations and asset management; Marie-Flore Ducrot, customer experience and network operations; and Denis Lavoie, chief legal, risk and safety officer.

Welcome. Thank you for taking time to appear before us today.

We're going to proceed with our opening remarks.

Ms. St‑Onge, go ahead for five minutes.

Micheline St-Onge Spokesperson, Coalition pour le retour des services d'un train de passagers en Gaspésie

Good afternoon, Mr. Chair and honourable members.

The Gaspésie passenger train is a lifeline. Since 1902, the passenger train connecting Gaspésie to the rest of Canada has been an essential form of public transportation for the region and enjoys a fine reputation in Canada and abroad.

The service deteriorated continuously from the 1980s onwards and was finally discontinued in 2013.

The Coalition pour le retour des services d'un train de passagers en Gaspésie is calling on the committee and the Minister of Transport to take action to end the lack of consideration that travellers have experienced since the 1980s. The coalition has some potential solutions to improve service across eastern Canada.

The closure of train stations started in 1982. Although 80,500 passengers took the Gaspésie train in 1984‑85, seven stations closed without due regard to their social role. For example, the Maria train station closed down, even though it was serving the only hospital in the entire Baie‑des‑Chaleurs. Other closures followed in 1986, 2000 and 2013, leaving only five train stations.

In 1990, VIA Rail reduced its round trips from seven to three per week. Ridership dropped by half to 42,000 passengers.

February 2009 was a deeply challenging month, with only 5 out of 12 trains serving Gaspé. The other trains were forced to turn around at New Carlisle, 175 kilometres from the terminus. On February 23, Gaspesians were forced to give up all their carriages to theOcean train connecting Montreal to Halifax when they were 56 kilometres from Montreal, and travel 862 kilometres by bus in the middle of the night.

In 2013, the Gaspésie train known as the Chaleur had fewer sleeper cabins, no dining cars, and no panoramic dome cars, even though it carried approximately 28,000 more passengers than in 2011. Passengers felt humiliated and poorly treated.

On December 10, 2011, service between New Carlisle and Gaspé was suspended due to the poor state of a bridge. On December 23, upon receipt of a status report on structures, VIA Rail commissioned another report and discontinued service from Matapédia. Partial service was restored after five months.

In 2013, service was halted east of Matapedia due to problems at level crossings. The Chaleur train was placed on the siding on arrival in Matapedia and passengers were forced to retrieve their luggage on their own and to walk on the tracks to the train station. They had to fend for themselves and felt disrespected. There were about 20 people, including children.

On August 23, VIA Rail stated that service between Matapedia and New Carlisle would resume as soon as the company was assured that the tracks were safe again. Even though safety reports were conclusive, VIA Rail kept asking for more reports. Requirements seem to be higher for Gaspésie than any other part of Canada.

In 2016, the Quebec government proposed a plan to repair the tracks at New Carlisle, and VIA Rail committed to resuming operations as soon as the work was completed.

In 2017, despite its commitments, VIA Rail refused to resume services gradually due to a lack of resources.

Right now, eastern Canada does not have a train to Gaspésie. The train goes through the Lower St. Lawrence in the middle of the night and frequently arrives in Halifax late.

In 2025, all elected officials in Gaspésie expressed support for a gradual resumption of service.

In January, an access to information request from VIA Rail revealed that in 2024, at least 2,643 passengers from Gaspésie travelled hundreds of kilometres to get to a train station. A report from the Integrated Health and Social Services Centre shows that in 2024, over 10,000 people had to travel outside the region to seek specialized health care and that the train was the preferred mode of travel on these trips.

Following a $335‑million investment, the tracks are now ready up to Port-Daniel—Gascons. Many of the questions that came up during the 2025 annual general meeting touched on the gradual return of the Gaspésie train. Unfortunately, the president responded that this was a logistical issue and that he did not want to or could not reverse course on the train.

We presented a petition to the House of Commons that had gathered 3,437 signatures in three months from people in 9 Canadian provinces and 46 living outside Canada.

For the past 40 years, passengers to and from Gaspésie have been fighting for decent service. Despite significant mobilization, there has been no commitment to a gradual return, even though VIA Rail offered this service to New Carlisle in 2012 and 2013.

On January 7, 2026, the freight train operated up to Port‑Daniel—Gascons for the first time since 2011. However, where is the passenger train?

Gaspésie needs a passenger train that addresses regional needs. We want a train, and we want a Montreal-Port‑Daniel—Gascons route now and a Montreal-Gaspé route as soon as possible. We want a daily, daytime train with few stops between Montreal and Rivière‑du‑Loup to serve the Lower St. Lawrence and Gaspésie and allow the Ocean train to make fewer stops in the municipalities it passes in the middle of the night.

If VIA Rail can't offer this service for logistical reasons, we want a protected budget and a pilot project starting this fall, because the Société du chemin de fer de la Gaspésie can manage the project.

Thank you for your attention.

The Chair Liberal Peter Schiefke

Thank you, Ms. St‑Onge.

Mr. Paquette, you now have the floor for five minutes.

Mathieu Paquette Interim President and Chief Executive Officer, VIA Rail Canada Inc.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Chair, members of the committee, thank you for welcoming us here today.

I've been asked to step in as the interim CEO at Via Rail at a moment when trust in passenger rail is being tested. My mandate is clear: Improve the performance of our trains, provide a service people can count on and maintain trust.

I'm here to be transparent on progress and accountable for results. That means trains leaving on time, equipment that performs to expectations and respectful care for passengers, including when things do not go as planned.

I'm joined today by Marie-Flore Ducrot, vice-president, customer experience, railway and network operations; by Graham Blackwell, vice-president, mechanical operations; and by Denis Lavoie, chief legal officer.

Together we are here to speak plainly about what happened on December 10, what we are doing to prevent similar incidents and how we will continue to earn the trust of our clients.

To be clear, the events that occurred on December 10 are unacceptable to us. The passengers who were affected deserve a sincere apology, and I want to express that to them once again. I know this committee has heard similar statements from my predecessors. I understand that trust is being tested today.

We always learn lessons every time an incident occurs and we strengthen our emergency response framework. However, the incident involving train 669 shows us that that is not enough. We must do more than just improve our processes. We need to deliver results, now.

Reliability is the foundation of trust. That's why ensuring that our service is dependable is my number one priority and the top priority of our entire leadership team. Via Rail operates in a complex environment and some constraints are outside of our direct control, but where we do have control, we must raise the bar—and we will.

Following the December incident, expectations on fleet reliability have been expressed very clearly to our supplier, Siemens. Short-term measures are in place to address immediate issues, and we're working together to develop long-term improvements.

Before answering your questions, I want to remind you of our public service mandate.

VIA Rail serves communities from coast to coast, both major centres and regions. Gaspésie is an important example of this. Our intention to return there has never changed.

We are open to the idea of planning a partial return, but several conditions still need to be met to achieve this. That is why I will be visiting the region very soon to engage directly with the concerned communities.

In closing, I want to put the December 10 incident into context, without minimizing it in any way.

In the Quebec City-Windsor corridor alone, Via Rail runs over 19,000 departures a year, and most trips unfold without incident. What happened on December 10 demands full accountability. My commitment is the following: We'll track our progress, using clear performance indicators. We will have more open dialogue with the communities we serve, and we will be transparent with Canadians about where we are making progress and where we are falling short.

Our duty now is simple: Deliver a service people can count on and prove through action that we deserve the trust of our clients.

Thank you for your attention.

We are now ready to answer your questions.

The Chair Liberal Peter Schiefke

Thank you very much, Mr. Paquette.

We'll begin our line of questioning today with Mr. Lawrence.

Mr. Lawrence, the floor is yours. You have six minutes, sir.

4:40 p.m.

Conservative

Philip Lawrence Conservative Northumberland—Clarke, ON

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'll start on a positive note. Via has responded every time we've invited them, and every time the CEO has come. We do appreciate that as a committee. However, my questions won't be as easy.

It's like Groundhog Day. In my riding in Coburg, we had people stuck for I believe it was 48 hours or so on a train. We've had incidents in Quebec and Ontario where we've had people stranded, people without access to washrooms, people without food to eat, other than a couple of bits of trail mix, for hours on end. This is a very serious issue. I appreciate your coming here and taking accountability and responsibility, but you'll excuse my skepticism if I see these issues.

You're right. There are certain things that are not controllable, but you should be able to control certain things. One of them is that the government gave you over $1 billion to get new trains. You got these trains from Siemens. The industry standard is to have 90% fleet availability. My understanding from reports is that you have 50% availability.

What went wrong with the procurement, and how are you going to fix it?

4:40 p.m.

Interim President and Chief Executive Officer, VIA Rail Canada Inc.

Mathieu Paquette

Thank you for your question.

Fleet reliability is not yet where we want it to be. As I mentioned, we have reset expectations clearly. En route reliability of the Venture fleet is at 98%. Our focus now is on the remaining 2%. I will ask my colleague, Mr. Blackwell, to give you more details on what we do working with Siemens.

Graham Blackwell Vice-President, Mechanical Operations and Asset Management, VIA Rail Canada Inc.

Availability, reliability and safety of our assets are the missions of mechanical operations. Siemens, like any one of our providers, is an important support to that availability and reliability. Since the December 10 incident, we've focused with them on engineering solutions and operational mitigations that we immediately put into place, and on ongoing software and hardware upgrades that immediately improved fleet reliability.

This is our focus for all of our fleet, whether it's a 50-year-old legacy car that's going to Vancouver or it's the new Venture fleet. We're accountable for the reliability of that fleet, and we'll continue to work with Siemens to push them, to pull them along, to make sure we reach that availability and to make sure we have the materials and everything we need to succeed for our clients.

4:45 p.m.

Conservative

Philip Lawrence Conservative Northumberland—Clarke, ON

Thank you for that. According to some of the reports, the fleet availability is much lower than what you're stating, but we'll continue on. According to a series of reports, the reason that the trains have broken down is Canadian cold weather. It would seem to me that it would be eminently knowable that in Canada winters are cold, and then you would acquire trains.

Was there any winter testing done on these trains before you procured them?

Denis Lavoie Chief Legal, Risk and Safety Officer, VIA Rail Canada Inc.

Yes. Via Rail bought these trains from Siemens back in 2018, and, yes, before those trains entered into service, we went through a full commissioning period. A winter test was part of that commissioning phase.

4:45 p.m.

Conservative

Philip Lawrence Conservative Northumberland—Clarke, ON

Is the information not correct that cold weather has played a role in some of these mechanical breakdowns? Is that true?

4:45 p.m.

Interim President and Chief Executive Officer, VIA Rail Canada Inc.

Mathieu Paquette

Reliability in wintertime is not where it should be, and it's not meeting our expectations and the expectations of our passengers. I want to be clear on this. We know that winter is coming and winter will be back.

4:45 p.m.

Conservative

Philip Lawrence Conservative Northumberland—Clarke, ON

With all due respect, my question, then, is why this was not caught before these trains were ever put on the rails and passengers were stranded for hours on end. How is it that there was not a vetting process? Presumably, there will be more trains that we will need to buy and that taxpayers will need to pay for. What processes are you going to put in place to make sure these trains operate in the Canadian winters?

4:45 p.m.

Interim President and Chief Executive Officer, VIA Rail Canada Inc.

Mathieu Paquette

Thank you for your question.

Again, when we purchased that fleet, there was some winter testing done at the time. For me, my mandate is clear. It's focusing on what I can control. Right now, we're working closely with Siemens to make sure the reliability of the fleet is meeting our expectations and those of the passengers.

4:45 p.m.

Conservative

Philip Lawrence Conservative Northumberland—Clarke, ON

Just this winter in a week in February, you had 30 different train cancellations. Can you tell us for sure that next winter we won't have any trains stranded, and that we won't have any cancellations going forward?

4:45 p.m.

Interim President and Chief Executive Officer, VIA Rail Canada Inc.

Mathieu Paquette

Cancellations are not taken lightly. With regard to the week you're making reference to, we were expecting a major winter weather event. It is our responsibility to make sure that we have guard trains ready in case of a disruption on the network. We understand that it has an impact on passengers, but it was our responsibility to take that decision because when—

4:45 p.m.

Conservative

Philip Lawrence Conservative Northumberland—Clarke, ON

I'm sorry. I have a quick question.

Would you undertake to provide our committee with your plan to increase fleet accessibility for next winter?

4:45 p.m.

Interim President and Chief Executive Officer, VIA Rail Canada Inc.

Mathieu Paquette

I missed the beginning of your question. Could you repeat it?

4:45 p.m.

Conservative

Philip Lawrence Conservative Northumberland—Clarke, ON

Could you provide us with a written document on your plan to increase fleet accessibility during next winter?

4:45 p.m.

Interim President and Chief Executive Officer, VIA Rail Canada Inc.

Mathieu Paquette

Absolutely. We'll provide that document.

The Chair Liberal Peter Schiefke

Thank you very much, Mr. Lawrence.

Thank you. Mr. Paquette.

Mr. Lauzon, you now have the floor for six minutes.

Stéphane Lauzon Liberal Argenteuil—La Petite-Nation, QC

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to the witnesses for being here today.

I will ask my questions in French.

I will start with Ms. St‑Onge from Gaspésie, Quebec.

I'm very proud of your region. I love it and visit on a regular basis.

You have mostly spoken to the benefits of adding a train line to improve access to health care, but you have not said much about the economic impact this could generate.

I've been to your region multiple times and I can say it has consistently high occupancy rates during peak seasons. It can be quite hard to find a hotel room.

Do you think a tourism-related train could put more pressure on your offer of services?

4:50 p.m.

Spokesperson, Coalition pour le retour des services d'un train de passagers en Gaspésie

Micheline St-Onge

Not necessarily, because the train was there before. There were other hotels and other facilities. The fact that the passenger train is no longer in service obviously means that many people can't come to Gaspésie any more. A lot of people also travel to visit family during the holidays and in summer.

The passenger train was always part of this offer until 2013. Various programs were in place and agreements had been made with travel agencies in Montreal that offered tours to the northern parts of Gaspésie. There was a lot riding on the passenger train and that has all come to an end. We don't have taxis, even though we could easily have some, because right now, there is no demand.

Stéphane Lauzon Liberal Argenteuil—La Petite-Nation, QC

Do you think the return of a passenger train could increase the service offer and spur new businesses and homes to put up shop in the region?

4:50 p.m.

Spokesperson, Coalition pour le retour des services d'un train de passagers en Gaspésie