Evidence of meeting #5 for Transport, Infrastructure and Communities in the 45th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was ferries.
A video is available from Parliament.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Peter Schiefke
One moment, everybody.
Mr. Gunn, I'll pause your time. You have roughly one minute left.
Ms. Nguyen.
Liberal
Chi Nguyen Liberal Spadina—Harbourfront, ON
I'm just curious to know how this is relevant to the conversation we're having about BC Ferries—
Conservative
Aaron Gunn Conservative North Island—Powell River, BC
We're giving $1 billion in taxpayer money to a country that is a dictatorship, that is abusing human rights. I think it's relevant.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Peter Schiefke
It's a valid point of order on that particular question, Mr. Gunn. Let's try to make sure that we use the time we have with the minister to ask questions relating to the BC Ferries contract.
I'll turn the floor back over to you, Mr. Gunn, and ask you to be more specific about issues relating to the BC Ferries contract.
Conservative
Aaron Gunn Conservative North Island—Powell River, BC
I think this is very specific.
Minister, do you believe that the People's Republic of China is currently engaged in unfair trade practices and tariffs against Canadian agricultural and seafood sectors?
Liberal
Gregor Robertson Liberal Vancouver Fraserview—South Burnaby, BC
Through the chair, I certainly will speak strongly in favour of Canadian agriculture and Canadian workers. Our industries should come first. This procurement happened through BC Ferries. It's not a decision that the Government of Canada had anything to do with.
Conservative
Aaron Gunn Conservative North Island—Powell River, BC
You're subsidizing it with $1 billion in taxpayer money, are you not, Minister?
Liberal
Gregor Robertson Liberal Vancouver Fraserview—South Burnaby, BC
Through the chair, this investment from the Canada Infrastructure Bank is in BC Ferries. It is a loan to BC Ferries for a procurement that they've done. It is not the Government of Canada making these decisions. It is the Infrastructure Bank financing BC Ferries. BC Ferries made the decision on the procurement.
Conservative
Aaron Gunn Conservative North Island—Powell River, BC
Minister, it is the Government of Canada and your department that set the policies that guide the bank, which then invests, or lends at below-market interest rates, taxpayers' money. Do you agree with the Prime Minister of this country that China is Canada's biggest national security threat?
Liberal
Gregor Robertson Liberal Vancouver Fraserview—South Burnaby, BC
I don't see where that comes into play. It's a BC Ferries procurement decision.
Conservative
Aaron Gunn Conservative North Island—Powell River, BC
Mr. Minister, we're giving them $1 billion in taxpayer money to subsidize a dual-use civilian and military industry.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Peter Schiefke
Thank you, Mr. Gunn.
The next speaker is Mr. Lauzon.
You have five minutes, Mr. Lauzon.
Liberal
Stéphane Lauzon Liberal Argenteuil—La Petite-Nation, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Minister, thank you for joining us today. We're honoured to have you here.
You spoke briefly about the current infrastructure deficit affecting ferries and the urgent need to take action. You also said that the responsibility for awarding contracts falls to BC Ferries, with the support of the Canada Infrastructure Bank.
Can you elaborate on the infrastructure deficit? Why is there an urgent need to give British Columbians good ferry service?
Liberal
Gregor Robertson Liberal Vancouver Fraserview—South Burnaby, BC
Thank you for your question.
As someone who has used B.C. ferry services on a very regular basis for all of my life, I think it's critical that BC Ferries operates its fleets, particularly the big ships that go back and forth to Vancouver Island between Horseshoe Bay and Nanaimo, and between Tsawwassen, Duke Point and the Saanich Peninsula. These are critical links on the west coast. Vancouver Island's population has grown dramatically in my lifetime, and these ships have been operating this entire time.
There are certainly very significant disruptions to service that affect people in B.C. and tourists coming through B.C., getting stuck at B.C. ferry terminals because the old ships are having challenges. There is a significant deficit, in terms of B.C. ferry assets, which it is working urgently to resolve, so this disruption in service does not impact so many Canadians on the west coast. I think new ferries will be warmly welcomed.
Many of us, probably all of us in B.C., are disappointed that we aren't manufacturing, we aren't building, those ferries for B.C. in B.C., or at least in Canada for B.C. However, first and foremost, we have to have safe, secure and reliable transportation. It's a massive transportation link on the west coast. It's the busiest ferry operation on the planet right now in terms of volume for comparable routes. This investment is very critical for Canadian transportation infrastructure writ large. Certainly, the needs are very high right now, and the new ferries can't come soon enough.
Liberal
Stéphane Lauzon Liberal Argenteuil—La Petite-Nation, QC
Can you talk a bit about how service disruptions affect carriers?
Ferries aren't just for passengers or travellers. They're also used to transport goods. Industries depend on these ferries. Business people from all over the place, including Nanaimo, also depend on various producers or companies in order to sell goods.
Can you talk about how a service disruption could affect these ferries?
Liberal
Gregor Robertson Liberal Vancouver Fraserview—South Burnaby, BC
I want to thank the member for his question.
You're very right to point out the importance of the trade links and the trucking that takes place on these ferries. The whole lower deck of these ferries, the centre of the lower deck, is full of trucks all the time. The disruption to the ferry service impacts business and trade and costs us jobs, effectively, when things go wrong, which is increasingly frequent with these aging ships. There's a significant cost to the Canadian economy in not having reliable ferries on the west coast serving Vancouver Island.
People are an important part of this. Vancouver Island is an enormous tourist destination. Many tourists go back and forth on the ferries. It's considered a real highlight to go back and forth on the ferries. It's a very good-value cruise ship type of experience, basically, without having to go on a cruise to Alaska. You can take the ferries over to Vancouver Island.
They are very busy. It's incredibly disruptive when people end up spending hours or half their day waiting for broken ferries to operate. Once there's a service disruption, the rest of that day and sometimes the next day will be disrupted as well, for both the trade and tourism sides. It's a big hit for the Canadian economy.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Peter Schiefke
Thank you, Mr. Lauzon and Minister Robertson.
Mr. Barsalou‑Duval, you have the floor for two and a half minutes.
Bloc
Xavier Barsalou-Duval Bloc Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
On June 2, two weeks before the Canada Infrastructure Bank announced that it would fund shipbuilding in China, Mélanie Joly stated that Ottawa would commit to using Canadian steel and aluminum in its national infrastructure and defence projects. This announcement was all over the media. She went on tour to discuss it and to say how much support the steel industry would receive. Two weeks later, we learned that the Canada Infrastructure Bank would instead fund the construction of ferries made using steel from China.
When Ms. Joly made this announcement and went on her media tour, I don't suppose that it occurred to you that your department could develop internal policies to ensure that her comments were put into practice.
Have you issued any instructions to your department, Housing and Infrastructure Canada, to ensure that Canadian steel and aluminum are used in the infrastructure projects funded?
Liberal
Gregor Robertson Liberal Vancouver Fraserview—South Burnaby, BC
Thank you for your question.
On the decision that was made to finance BC Ferries, my understanding is that it was made in March, earlier this year, prior to the election and the new government being elected, so the financing was done. The CIB agreed to the terms of that with BC Ferries. There is no opportunity in June or July to turn back the clock.
Bloc
Xavier Barsalou-Duval Bloc Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC
Have you instructed your department to ensure that future projects are carried out using Canadian‑made components? If so, when did you issue these instructions?
Liberal
Gregor Robertson Liberal Vancouver Fraserview—South Burnaby, BC
I think, across government, certainly within cabinet at this point, everything going forward is focused on Canadian steel and aluminum, Canadian lumber and Canadian workers. That's our mission, from this point forward. We can't, retroactively, go to financing that was agreed to back in March.
Bloc
Xavier Barsalou-Duval Bloc Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC
You aren't answering my question. I asked whether you gave your department instructions. Ministers often pay lip service to supporting the steel industry.
Did you give specific internal instructions to ensure that infrastructure projects comply with the statements of principle issued by Minister Mélanie Joly?
Liberal
Gregor Robertson Liberal Vancouver Fraserview—South Burnaby, BC
At this stage, through the chair, I don't give instructions to other ministers on how they conduct their affairs—