Evidence of meeting #5 for Transport, Infrastructure and Communities in the 45th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was ferries.
A video is available from Parliament.
Bloc
Xavier Barsalou-Duval Bloc Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC
I'm talking about your department. The Canada Infrastructure Bank, for example—
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Peter Schiefke
Thank you, Minister.
Thank you, Mr. Barsalou‑Duval.
Next, we have Dr. Lewis.
Dr. Lewis, the floor is yours, once again. You have five minutes, please.
Conservative
Leslyn Lewis Conservative Haldimand—Norfolk, ON
Thank you, Chair.
In the last round of questions, Minister, you stated that almost all of the contracts are domestic. What does “almost all” mean? Are there other public, taxpayer-funded contracts going to enrich foreign countries, which are funded by Canada Infrastructure Bank funds that you, as the minister, are in charge of?
Liberal
Gregor Robertson Liberal Vancouver Fraserview—South Burnaby, BC
I'm not aware of other projects that are anything like this, in terms of financing, that might be going offshore. I am aware of projects and have gone through a history, whether it's the retrofit of Algoma Steel, the broadband investments in a number of provinces, or the airports in Montreal and Calgary. These are all very significant infrastructure investments by the Infrastructure Bank, which ultimately are funded through that initial $35 billion, and my direction, through the policy direction that is in my purview, will be to be very focused on Canadian materials and Canadian jobs, and on benefits to the Canadian economy, in the CIB investments going forward.
Conservative
Leslyn Lewis Conservative Haldimand—Norfolk, ON
Thank you for that answer.
I'm going to ask you specific infrastructure questions.
Of the $1-billion loan, there is $310 million that is allocated for electrification infrastructure. Do you know which companies will be building that infrastructure for the Chinese-made vessels, and have those contracts been disclosed?
Liberal
Gregor Robertson Liberal Vancouver Fraserview—South Burnaby, BC
Through the chair, I do not know the answer for those contracts. Those are BC Ferries procurements, again. I'm not aware of those decisions being made at this stage in the procurement that they're doing.
Conservative
Leslyn Lewis Conservative Haldimand—Norfolk, ON
Okay.
Minister, given what has happened, and given the fact that you said that you're very disturbed by what has happened, that we know that $1 billion is going to a foreign company and that we now know that $310 million is allocated for infrastructure, you made no inquiries to see which companies are going to be getting those infrastructure contracts. Is that what you're telling me?
Liberal
Gregor Robertson Liberal Vancouver Fraserview—South Burnaby, BC
That is the electrification infrastructure to charge the ferries in the future. That will be installed in Vancouver, West Vancouver, Tsawwassen, Nanaimo and Saanich to charge the ferries. Certainly, those are decisions that will be made by BC Ferries and procured by BC Ferries. Given the concern that's been shared widely by many of us across Canada, my follow-up is to keep the pressure on, so that those are Canadian jobs and it's Canadian infrastructure in those future procurements.
I'm not aware of those procurements already being made.
Conservative
Leslyn Lewis Conservative Haldimand—Norfolk, ON
You do not know if foreign companies will be receiving those infrastructure contracts associated with the $310 million, because you're not aware of whether or not those procurements have been made. That's what you're telling me.
Liberal
Gregor Robertson Liberal Vancouver Fraserview—South Burnaby, BC
Those are procurement decisions that BC Ferries is making.
Conservative
Leslyn Lewis Conservative Haldimand—Norfolk, ON
Right, and it is a part of the $1 billion that you said you're concerned about, but you have not even looked into how that money's being spent to see whether or not the infrastructure component is also going to be outsourced. It likely will be, because it has to be compatible with the ships that are built in China. You have not made that inquiry. Why?
Liberal
Gregor Robertson Liberal Vancouver Fraserview—South Burnaby, BC
Through the chair, this procurement is the responsibility of BC Ferries. BC Ferries is purchasing ferries and the electrical infrastructure to charge those ferries at the four points they go back and forth between. They are making their procurement decisions. I think it behooves all of us to make it clear to our counterparts that we want to see Canadian procurement. We want to see Canadian jobs and Canadian materials. Ultimately, it's a BC Ferries decision going forward. They are the ones procuring the ferries and the infrastructure that goes with them.
Conservative
Leslyn Lewis Conservative Haldimand—Norfolk, ON
So you're upset but just hopeful that it will change—
Liberal
Conservative
Liberal
Peter Schiefke Liberal Vaudreuil, QC
Next we will go to Mr. Greaves.
Mr. Greaves, the floor is yours. You have five minutes, sir.
Liberal
Will Greaves Liberal Victoria, BC
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair, and good afternoon, Minister Robertson. Thank you for joining us. It's great to see you again.
It's unfortunate that we're hearing a bit of confusion from our colleagues opposite about the nature of an arm's-length agency and its relationship to the federal government, confusion about who makes decisions and the kind of arm's-length relationship that informs that decision-making, and confusion about the critical role that BC Ferries plays out here in British Columbia, supporting people every single day, supporting our coastal economy.
I know that you are well aware of these things. In addition to your responsibilities as Minister of Housing and Infrastructure, you're also the minister responsible for the federal regional development agency for British Columbia, PacifiCan.
In that context, I wondered if you could speak, Minister, to some of the ways that the federal government is supporting investments along the B.C. coast that are going to help us not only meet critical infrastructure needs, such as BC Ferries, but also contribute to the greening of our economy, to the reduction of air pollution, and to moving toward the more sustainable economic future that British Columbians want and that the federal government is committed to supporting.
Liberal
Gregor Robertson Liberal Vancouver Fraserview—South Burnaby, BC
Through the chair, thanks to the member for the question. Certainly both through Housing, Infrastructure and Communities Canada and through PacifiCan, the economic development agency for the federal government in B.C., we're making very significant investments in housing infrastructure and all facets of the economy in B.C. We will definitely be laser focused on ensuring that every procurement decision we make going forward puts Canadians first. We're going to see this across government now, given the times, given the challenges we face in the Canadian economy and given the importance of really focusing on investing in Canada and making sure we maximize and optimize the benefits for Canadians.
On the west coast, the Canada public transit fund's recent investments in TransLink for clean transportation in the region are going to be very important in terms of TransLink modernizing its fleet of vehicles and infrastructure, for cleaner transportation, better service and affordability benefits. As an example, through Housing, Infrastructure and Communities Canada but also across PacifiCan, the focus is more on small and medium-sized enterprises, a lot of the businesses that are scaling up to offer products and services that are Canadian, Canadian technologies, creating Canadian jobs, using Canadian materials.
On the housing front, obviously close to our hearts in B.C. are BC Wood and the importance of making sure we're doing everything we can to get Canadian wood into Canadian housing and buildings. It's going to be a big focus for us in the department to make sure we're doing everything we can to get those Canadian materials in the supply chains for all the housing and infrastructure investments that we're making going forward.
We have an urgent effort now to move that forward. It was good to hear from Minister Freeland's side and Transport Canada that she's working, as well, with industry, with steel and aluminum on both the shipbuilding side and on the rail side, which are directly connected to her work in the department. We're doing a similar exercise in Housing and Infrastructure Canada. Within PacifiCan, we're more focused at the B.C. level and the small and medium-sized business level.
Liberal
Will Greaves Liberal Victoria, BC
Thank you, Minister.
The last question from me, just very briefly, is this: In your capacity as minister for PacifiCan, is it your view that supporting BC Ferries in replacing and upgrading the ferry fleet in B.C. is a necessary measure to also support a healthy B.C. economy and sustainable growth out here in British Columbia?
Liberal
Gregor Robertson Liberal Vancouver Fraserview—South Burnaby, BC
Absolutely. BC Ferries is essential to the B.C. economy, which is a critical piece of the Canadian economy.
We have to be investing and ensuring that our transportation infrastructure is robust and efficient. This is a really important and long-overdue investment, frankly, from BC Ferries. I think we all regret that it's a procurement that benefits a Chinese shipyard. In these times we would like to see that business, but there was no Canadian shipbuilder that bid on this.
I think we have to do everything we can going forward to build up our shipbuilding industry in B.C. and across Canada.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Peter Schiefke
Thank you, Minister.
We'll have a last lightning round, for which I will turn the floor over to Dr. Lewis for three minutes and then to Mr. Kelloway for three minutes.
The floor is yours, Dr. Lewis, for a last round of three minutes, please.
Conservative
Leslyn Lewis Conservative Haldimand—Norfolk, ON
Minister, you stated that the CIB signed the deal on March 28. You became the minister on May 13.
Are you telling us that you found out on June 11—which is an entire month after—about the deal, and that you seriously went an entire month without finding out, from the bank that reports to you, about this deal?
Liberal
Gregor Robertson Liberal Vancouver Fraserview—South Burnaby, BC
To the chair, yes, I'll clarify that I was told the news about the CIB loan to BC Ferries on June 11. The night of June 11 was when I found out.
Conservative
Leslyn Lewis Conservative Haldimand—Norfolk, ON
Chair, I'd like to use the rest of my time to bring forth a motion, as follows:
Given that the Canada Infrastructure Bank failed to fulfill its mandate in section 6 of the Canada Infrastructure Bank Act, which states:
“The purpose of the Bank is to invest, and seek to attract investment from private sector investors and institutional investors, in infrastructure projects in Canada or partly in Canada that will generate revenue and that will be in the public interest by, for example, supporting conditions that foster economic growth or by contributing to the sustainability of infrastructure in Canada”,
by awarding a $1-billion loan to BC Ferries for the purchase of four ferries from a Chinese state-owned shipyard, and that
this decision undermines Canadian shipbuilders and steel and aluminum workers already under attack by unjustified US tariffs,
the committee reaffirm its position and report to the House that the Government of Canada abolish the Canada Infrastructure Bank.