Veterans Affairs Committee on Oct. 16th, 2006

[Betty Hinton, Conservative, Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC]

I don't entirely agree with you, but I think we need to talk about this. Please come to my office. I'd appreciate it.

Mr. Sweet.

[David Sweet, Conservative, Ancaster—Dundas—Flamborough—Westdale, ON]

I think I'll add to everybody's words in saying congratulations, Mr. Frost. I would also echo the fact that Pierre makes every meeting that I've ever been at as well.

I would like to aggregate as much information as I can regarding your opinions around the ombudsman. I've tried to galvanize some of the information here. Other than defending and ensuring veterans rights, ensuring the integrity of the review and appeal process, as well as providing a defence avenue for a veteran without added financial duress, which we talked about as far as the court process goes, what other roles do you see an ombudsman playing as we move forward to try to describe the roles and responsibilities of this person?

[Jack Frost]

There's definitely a role in long-term care. We have problems today, for example, with the wait list. We've had veterans' dependants who have had extreme difficulty getting information from the hospital or doctors regarding their loved one's well-being or in fact their demise.

We've had long-term care facilities that have received large amounts of money from Veterans Affairs Canada and in fact were being paid for beds that weren't being used. In fact, just recently there has been an audit completed by Veterans Affairs on the regional activities in Ontario, which I think has exposed a number of problem areas that I know they're rectifying. An ombudsman could probably have stepped in prior to this and let those cases be known. I'm talking long-term care issues now. I don't see a place for the ombudsman strictly in pensions and benefits. I see it in all venues.

[David Sweet, Conservative, Ancaster—Dundas—Flamborough—Westdale, ON]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Anders]

Thank you, Mr. Sweet.

Mr. Rota, for five minutes.

[Anthony Rota, Liberal, Nipissing—Timiskaming, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Apparently there's a draft veterans bill of rights that exists, and I haven't seen a copy of it. It's been put together by the Legion. Is that a public document? Is there any way of getting a copy? Could we have the draft sent to the committee? Is that available?

[Jack Frost]

It's certainly possible. It's on our website.

[Anthony Rota, Liberal, Nipissing—Timiskaming, ON]

It is on the website. That's good to know. I'll go to the website then. That's not a problem.

The other question I have is regarding the ombudsman. We've had a number of discussions over the last couple of years. Just so that I get myself straight here, the Royal Canadian Legion is now in favour of the ombudsman. Is that the official stand of the Royal Canadian Legion? Does it go into the grassroots? Is it pretty well permeated right through?

[Jack Frost]

It'll go to the grassroots. It is our official stand that, yes, we support an ombudsman, but we would like to have input before the final documentation is completed. As well, I'm sure the other veterans organizations would also like to see it before the ink is dry.

[Anthony Rota, Liberal, Nipissing—Timiskaming, ON]

That's encouraging. I like to hear that.

One of the things that comes up time and time again is geographical location. As you know, I'm from northern Ontario, and northern or rural areas don't always get the best service. The nice thing about having a Legion is that it's in the area. How do you see yourself working with the ombudsman to ensure that people in remote areas get full service? That's a very important issue for us. Do you see that cooperation going forward? It sounds like a marriage made in heaven if we can have both organizations working together.

[Jack Frost]

Certainly that works easily through our service bureau network, through the organization of the Royal Canadian Legion. It's a bottom-up organization, where if there are issues at the grassroots level and somebody wants to press the right buttons, they can get to me within a matter of weeks with issues that I can bring forward. I say weeks, but in fact within days I can be apprised of what the issues are and we can bring those forward. It's not a slow, cumbersome body. Could it be faster? Anything could always be better, but I think it works well.

[Anthony Rota, Liberal, Nipissing—Timiskaming, ON]

That was one of the concerns that was brought up often with individual Legion members. When we have a Legion nearby, we can access it easily and there is help there and someone we can relate to. Having the ombudsman and the Legion working together really sounds like a perfect setup.

Has this come up? Has it been discussed at all?

[Jack Frost]

We've discussed it with the provincial presidents extensively. We've asked for their input. At this time, we have a consensus that we agree with having an ombudsman. It's just a matter of what the model will be. If we had an advisory council that could take those issues and speak directly to the ombudsman, it would probably work even better.

[Anthony Rota, Liberal, Nipissing—Timiskaming, ON]

I would like to welcome you to the new position. Congratulations. You have some big shoes to fill. Mary Ann Burdett did a wonderful job, but you seem to have the same passion. Thank you for taking the time and doing this job.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Anders]

Well said, Mr. Rota.

Mr. Shipley.

[Bev Shipley, Conservative, Lambton—Kent—Middlesex, ON]

One of the issues has to do with modern veterans and traditional veterans within the Legion. It comes up from time to time that the modern ones may not be as comfortable with the Legion as the traditional ones.

We're into the modern day and it's a bit of a different scenario. I'm wondering what your plans are. You'll need to implement them. You'll need the confidence and support of your members. You talked about smaller groups that may be forming. I'm wondering if you have comments on this and what your strategy will be.

[Jack Frost]

We're well aware of changing lifestyles. The needs of the young serving member being discharged today are not the same as those of the veterans of World War II or Korea. Those needs are different and their lifestyles are different. It is a major concern of ours. It's a documented fact that our membership is dropping. We're starting to see some new organizations popping up here and there. There are a number of reasons for this. We saw the same thing after World War II, with a number of the regimental organizations. They are very good, God bless them, and I support them 100%.

Just this past weekend we discussed how we're going out to every known veterans organization and asking them to exchange views with us to see if there are issues on which we can support one another. We know that the peacekeeping group, with its younger members, is gathering strength. We're also looking at bringing everybody to the table. We may even have to look at what was done in 1926, when we brought all of the veterans groups under one umbrella and took another look to see if we couldn't support each other and come back under one name.

Yes, we are working toward resolving this issue. The young serving member today is a lot more savvy when it comes to the website, the computer. Those are areas we are working on to try to get them onside with us. We're looking at offering a free one-year membership for every discharged member, to see if that will help us.

[Bev Shipley, Conservative, Lambton—Kent—Middlesex, ON]

Is that the issue? I just encourage you, because before I got into this position, I have always related the Legion to the vets and representation of them. For your good, in whatever you can do to represent the vets, it's certainly good for you to come to a larger body like this as the spokespeople for them.

Fragmentation is always difficult, and fragmentation causes a loss of drive and a loss of power and a loss of authority, so I just want to know what you've actually done in terms of plans or strategy. The subject is one that has come forward before, that's been laid out here before, and I just encourage you to get that strategy in place so that you can continue to work on bringing them together, because they're all vets.

Thank you. That's all I have, Mr. Chairman.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Anders]

There are twenty seconds left, Mrs. Hinton, if you wish.

[Betty Hinton, Conservative, Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC]

I'll make it really quick then. It's just a comment again.

You mentioned that you'd like to see a six-year mandate, and you mentioned that you'd like to see that to ease through governments. I just wanted to point out to you that in the last six years there have been three elections, so I wish I lived in your world.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Anders]

All right, I believe we're now up to Mr. Stoffer, for his second kick at the can.

[Peter Stoffer, NDP, Sackville—Eastern Shore, NS]

I always feel like that last kid picked at the ball game, you know.

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh!

[Peter Stoffer, NDP, Sackville—Eastern Shore, NS]

Here we have a DND ombudsman, and now we're going to set up a veterans ombudsman. I've asked other people this question, but has any thought been give at all, from the Legion's perspective, to the idea that maybe the role of the DND ombudsman could be expanded, with more resources and more personnel, in order to do possibly both?

One of the concerns that we have—and Madam Hinton indicated it as well—is that the clawback and other issues are DND-related, yet these are veterans who are clamouring for changes to these particular policies. Sometimes there's confusion there, and they want to know who they can go to in order to argue their point. Is there any consideration at all of having that one person do both?

[Jack Frost]

I'm going to just answer that briefly, but then I'm going to ask Pierre to answer it also.

There are two separate ministries, and they're not the same. We feel it would definitely require a separate ombudsman. The DND ombudsman right now has a full plate, and he has different issues that he's working with. We would be a little afraid that one side might taint the other side when it comes to his vision.