Evidence of meeting #12 for Veterans Affairs in the 39th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was ombudsman.
A recording is available from Parliament.
5 p.m.
Director, Service Bureau, Dominion Command, Royal Canadian Legion
Nor should we forget the role of advisors, veterans organizations.
5 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Rob Anders
Thank you very much for that lively speech.
Now, on to Mr. Cuzner for five minutes.
5 p.m.
Liberal
Rodger Cuzner Liberal Cape Breton—Canso, NS
I just want to shift gears a bit. It might flow from the questions put forward by Mr. Shipley, but it's outside your testimony today.
I have 24 legion branches within my constituency. Not unlike many other members around the table, they probably vary in size, in their ability to succeed and move ahead, and in their sophistication of the executive and its ability to operate in current situations. They are mainly in rural communities. As we all know, people are leaving rural communities and moving to larger centres. That's a fact of life. What has befallen the memberships is really somewhat of a burden, a chore, or a challenge to continue to operate the legions. Sometimes their main focus and challenge is not just to provide for their membership and address issues that impact the veterans, but to keep the doors open and patch the roof sort of thing.
With respect to the national command, I'm wondering if you could enlighten me somewhat as to whether the branches are totally autonomous. Are they responsible to the regional command? Are there services available, maybe expertise in real estate? I have a couple of branches that are looking at closing down and selling the property. Does that money go back to the national command? Is there any major plan going forward to address some of the challenges by veterans in rural communities who are trying to keep legions open?
5 p.m.
Dominion President, Royal Canadian Legion
You've asked a lot of questions there.
First of all, with respect to the national structure, a branch is autonomous as long as it stays within the constitution and the general bylaws of Dominion Command and their provincial command. Some branches have their own bylaws, and as long as everything stays within the overall envelope....
If a branch wants to sell its property, then it has to have permission from the provincial command it belongs to. The provincial command will look at ways to help save that branch, if it's at all possible.
I'm sorry, I forget where you're from. Cape Breton? Nova Scotia has a great program that it calls the branch advisory committee. It will make every possible effort to keep that branch afloat. It could be financial advice that it needs, or it could be declining membership. A branch can sell its property but still hold its charter. If a branch is disbanding, then 99.9% of the time whatever moneys are left would stay within that community and be dispersed among other charitable organizations.
So, no, it does not come to the Dominion Command unless we've incurred expenses in disposing of the property. For example, let's say the branch has been operating outside the charter. I send a directive saying get back in or you're out. We give them every opportunity to get back in, but let's say they continue to stay out. Then I pull the charter and there are expenses involved--lawyer expenses--to dispose of the property. I would claim those expenses to Dominion Command and the rest would still go back to the community.
5:05 p.m.
Director, Service Bureau, Dominion Command, Royal Canadian Legion
I just want to add one thing. We will make all efforts to help branches, even to the point where if they need to consolidate, if they need to use their assets—which is the land, which is sometimes quite valuable—then we actually have a consultant who is operating out of Charlottetown.
That consultant is our housing consultant. He happens to be a VAC employee who is on secondment to the Legion, so he is a resource that is very valuable. He has assisted some branches in actually developing housing projects, for example, to create revenues, etc., or to see what they can do with their land. So there are mechanisms in place in addition to a branch just not being able to continue. So we do encourage them.
5:05 p.m.
Liberal
Rodger Cuzner Liberal Cape Breton—Canso, NS
I've lost two so far. There is a great deal of pride in the veterans and a pride and sense of community with the branches. I recognize that. But as the young people leave for education or employment opportunities or whatever it might be, the numbers aren't there. To generate funds, there are only so many karaoke nights to go around.
So if they were to sell it, they would put together a disbursal of funds, a plan, I guess, and bring it forward to the provincial command first. Okay. It's great that such advice is there for them as well.
5:05 p.m.
Dominion President, Royal Canadian Legion
We're also pushing for amalgamation. We've looked at the whole structure of zones, districts, and branches, but one of the obstacles we run up against when we recommend it is the pride in that branch, “I belong to Branch 620 and I'll be darned if I'm going to amalgamate.” It's a problem we are working on.
5:05 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Rob Anders
Thank you, gentlemen.
Seeing that we don't have any more people on the list who want to...just to let you know, Mr. Stoffer, we'd have to go Conservative Party and Liberal three times, then Bloc, then Conservative Party and Liberal again, and then back to the Conservative Party, and then you.
5:05 p.m.
Conservative
5:05 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Rob Anders
We have to go that route then, I guess.
Are there any Conservatives who wish to get on the roster?
5:05 p.m.
Conservative
Betty Hinton Conservative Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC
I don't have any more questions. I think I've asked all the questions I have. My colleagues don't seem to have any more questions either. But I will give you an opportunity, if you'd like, Mr. Frost or Mr. Allard, to make some comments that you might want to leave with the members of this committee. There may be some things we have not managed to touch on that you would like to speak about and that are important to you. Please feel free to use my three minutes. I have no problem with that at all.
5:05 p.m.
Director, Service Bureau, Dominion Command, Royal Canadian Legion
The only thing I would add is that I think your committee has done very good work in looking after the interests of veterans and grilling people like us to present ideas and concepts. I think your assistance is also very valuable. Whichever party you're from, I think the interest of veterans is the first thing on your minds, so I think we, the Legion, recognize that and we thank you.
5:10 p.m.
Dominion President, Royal Canadian Legion
I would also like to go on record as saying that even though it may appear that we've taken maybe what you would call a shot at VRAB, it certainly was not our intention to have done so, because we truly believe they do a magnificent job. Sometimes we disagree with the outcomes, but overall we believe they and the department as well are well in tune with helping the veterans.
Thank you.
5:10 p.m.
Conservative
Betty Hinton Conservative Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC
Well said. I think constructive criticism makes anyone and everyone grow, whether it's this committee or VRAB, and I think most of us would be big enough to take the constructive criticisms to heart and maybe try to improve the way we deliver.
In terms of being supportive and helpful to veterans, I can say without hesitation that this is probably one committee of the House of Commons that, regardless of political stripe, does not use this opportunity for partisan purposes, because all of us have an...well, okay, maybe sometimes.
5:10 p.m.
Bloc
5:10 p.m.
Conservative
Betty Hinton Conservative Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC
I'm getting some heads shaking over there. But overall I think it could be said that every member of this committee has the interests of veterans first and foremost at heart, and I think we conduct ourselves that way. We may jab back and forth—and you've seen the friendly banter that happens in this room—but basically we're here for the same purpose, and that purpose is to improve the lives of veterans.
When you come and you make criticisms, we consider those to be constructive criticisms. There's no need to apologize in any way, shape, or form.
5:10 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Rob Anders
I know Monsieur Perron mentioned to me earlier that he wanted to talk about the committee business for Wednesday. I'm going to ask Mr. Stoffer if we might be able to move to that. Otherwise, we'll—
5:10 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Rob Anders
How does the committee feel about Mr. Stoffer asking one question, and then we'll move to committee business for Wednesday? Is that all right? Yes?
Mr. Stoffer.
5:10 p.m.
NDP
Peter Stoffer NDP Sackville—Eastern Shore, NS
I just wanted to say that we've been talking about an ombudsman for veterans, but I don't think anyone has ever asked the question as to why we need one. We have 3,500 people who work for DVA. We have 308 members of Parliament and over 100 senators, plus the media, the Legion, the NCVA, ANAVETS, etc. There has to be a reason why we need an ombudsman, and I'd like to know if you could possibly elaborate as to why the Royal Canadian Legion thinks we need one.
5:10 p.m.
Director, Service Bureau, Dominion Command, Royal Canadian Legion
We're dealing with a different type of client today. We're dealing with a client who has had the opportunity to deal with the Canadian Forces ombudsman. There are certain expectations. There are certain ways that they see the business evolving. They're more informed. They go to the websites. I think we have to meet the needs of that new clientele.
