Veterans Affairs Committee on Nov. 22nd, 2006

[Yves Côté]

In the past, yes.

[Gilles-A. Perron, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

I agree with you.

One thing really surprises me. I was not there at the time, but according to my friend Louise, she has been fighting since 1994 for the recognition of post-traumatic stress syndrome. I arrived in 1997 and I have been fighting for that recognition since that time. The army still states that the syndrome does not exist, that it is nonsense, that people are imagining things.

Since the Conservative Party came to power, for the first time this year I have seen a document from the Department of National Defence that recognizes the existence of this syndrome.

Reading your document, I nearly had a heart attack. On page 35 of the French version, there is a letter written on July 20, 2001 by the Vice-Admiral and Vice-Chief of Defence Staff, G.L. Garnett, and the Senior General Counsel of the Department of National Defence at that time, Mr. Mark Zazulak. In the fourth paragraph, it says: "...if a member of the Canadian Forces who has suffered from post-traumatic stress..."

We are in the year 2006. Why did we have to wait all this time before talking officially about post-traumatic stress syndrome? Why did the Department of National Defence's ombudsman not want to investigate this? Sir, I am not blaming you for that, but nevertheless the ombudsman has heard about this syndrome since 1994. Why was there never any investigation on this subject? Is it because the army or the Minister of Defence did not want an inquiry?

What I was trying to show—and I agree with Peter on this—is that very often, your hands are tied, you are sent a note and told to be quiet, to put a Band-Aid on it, and not to rock the boat, because if not, you might lose your job. This is one of the reasons why I want to protect you.

You should report to a committee or to some kind of organization, and not to the Department of National Defence or to General Hillier. Surely the general has a very great impact on the decisions as to whether or not an inquiry should be carried out. That is an informal finding, but I may be allowed to say so formally, which you perhaps cannot do.

[Yves Côté]

Mr. Chairman, obviously, the member can issue any notices or opinions that he deems appropriate. All I can do is to talk about what I know and of my experience. There are perhaps a couple of points I would like to make.

First of all, my predecessor did table a report on the issue of post-traumatic stress syndrome. The report contained 23 recommendations, if memory serves me well. This resulted in an initial follow-up, which allowed us to see that several of Mr. André Marin's recommendations were implemented. We are in the process of completing another review of our initial recommendations, which will take into account what was done and what was not done. The report will be made public during the first quarter of 2007.

I will talk about my personal experience. Since I became the ombudsman for the Canadian Forces, that is since August 2005, there has never been, by any general, admiral, minister, political person or senior official whatsoever, any direct or indirect attempt, open or secret, discrete or not... I could even swear on the Bible. However, what ever happened in the office before I took up my position, I cannot obviously attest to. You would have to speak to the person who held the position at the time.

For myself, I can tell you that that has never happened, and were it to happen, I would make sure to take the strong and courageous steps necessary. That is the responsibility of someone who holds a position like mine.

[Gilles-A. Perron, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

I'm grateful to you and I thank you on behalf of the veterans.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Anders]

Mrs. Hinton promises me that she has a very short interjection.

[Betty Hinton, Conservative, Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC]

I just want to clear up perhaps a misconception.

Veterans Affairs oversees RCMP benefits, and the RCMP can apply to Veterans Affairs on some disability issues, but it's actually public safety that oversees all the other issues for the RCMP. I just want to clarify that for Peter.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Anders]

Thank you very much for your presentation, sir.

We'll be preparing a report on this, probably not long after we hear our witnesses. We appreciate your comments. As our colleague Monsieur Perron said, we'll probably invite you back on another veteran-related issue.

[Yves Côté]

It would be my distinct pleasure to reappear before this committee any time you see fit to invite me.

Thank you very much for your attention.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Anders]

Thank you.

Just to let our committee members know, on Monday, November 27, we have Mr. Hoppe, from the Canadian Peacekeeping Veterans Association. He's not yet totally confirmed, but it looks very likely. On Wednesday, November 29, we have Mr. Winzenberg.

Monsieur Gaudet.

[Roger Gaudet, Bloc, Montcalm, QC]

On Thursday, November 30th, the House of Commons will not be sitting because our Liberal colleagues will hold their leadership convention. Would it be possible to postpone that meeting since the Liberals will not be here? They may be gone to their convention; I do not know.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Anders]

I don't know how flexible Mr. Winzenberg would be on this matter. The clerk would have a better knowledge than I have.

The Liberal meeting is on November 30. What I understand is that on the night of November 29, the registration begins for the Liberal convention. This is on the afternoon of November 29. Maybe the clerk could inform us with regard to Mr.....

[Brent St. Denis, Liberal, Algoma—Manitoulin—Kapuskasing, ON]

The House is sitting on that day, so it's a legitimate timeframe.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Anders]

Mr. Clerk, do you have any thoughts?

[The Clerk of the Committee, Mr. Alexandre Roger]

From my contacts with Mr. Winzenberg, I think he is flexible. If it's the committee's will to do so, I certainly think he'll understand. It is a possibility. I remain in the committee's hands to apply any decision the committee would like to take.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Anders]

Where is he coming from?

[The Clerk]

Toronto.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Anders]

When is he next available?

[The Clerk]

I'd have to speak to him; I don't know. But in December we have four meetings.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Anders]

I'm at the will of the committee here. Monsieur Gaudet has put the idea forward. What do people think?

Let's take a quick straw poll, if we can. Those in favour of trying to move Mr. Winzenberg to a later date, indicate by raising your hands, please.

I think I see four.

Those who would like to keep Mr. Winzenberg for the time that he's already been booked for, raise your hands.

Okay, there is no strong will on that side.

We'll see what we can do about moving Mr. Winzenberg. We'll get back to you and let you know via notice.

[Peter Stoffer, NDP, Sackville—Eastern Shore, NS]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Anders]

Thanks so much.

The meeting is adjourned.