Veterans Affairs Committee on Dec. 4th, 2006

[Bev Shipley, Conservative, Lambton—Kent—Middlesex, ON]

I think we need to get the thoughts on today. It wasn't the ombudsman from Australia. There were a lot of unanswered questions, even though there was a lot of good information. I don't know where we go with that. We should discuss it, I think.

Did we have the bill of rights? That leads us into the next phase of completion for veterans affairs.

I think we just need to line up our stuff, get our ducks in order so that we don't have a lot of vacant time at our committees. If that is the case, then I would like to move along with both of these in such a way that we could get to Mr. St. Denis' bill and deal with it in an appropriate time. But let's not forget the focus that we have here; that's all.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Anders]

Okay. I'm just sort of tracking everything here, because I'm doing without my clerk now.

Now we're over to Mr. Valley.

[Roger Valley, Liberal, Kenora, ON]

Thank you.

I'd like to speak to the motion. I think we have a fair bit of work to do when we get back here. We're going to have a draft in front of us. It's going to take us some time to deal with the draft, to make changes to it.

I think that when we come back we can talk about when we're going to deal with it, if we're going to put it before or after the bill of rights, because the bill of rights is going to be another big chunk of stuff we have to do. We'll have to line up witnesses and everything else. If we could decide when we come back what the scope of work is on Mr. St. Denis' bill, that would tell us whether.... If it's two or three days, we'll put it ahead of it. If it's more than that, we'll have to put it behind. But we can't wait too long.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Anders]

I'm just trying to clarify your position. You're saying—

[Roger Valley, Liberal, Kenora, ON]

I'm saying that when we come back, we're going to have a draft in front of us. It's going to take us a couple of meetings to deal with the draft, to give some instruction to the researchers, to write our report to the minister--we have to deal with that. So we're at two, three, four, or five meetings when we get back anyway. We have time then to decide the order, whether it's Mr. St. Denis' bill or the bill of rights. The bill of rights is the much bigger chunk to bite.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Anders]

Okay. I'm not sure where that's going, but all right.

Monsieur Gaudet.

[Roger Gaudet, Bloc, Montcalm, QC]

Is Mr. Hillier the last witness scheduled to appear before the committee in conjunction with our study of the ombudsman question?

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Anders]

I'm sorry, I was trying to keep track of all the people who wanted to speak.

What was the question again? I'm sorry.

[Roger Gaudet, Bloc, Montcalm, QC]

How many witnesses do we still need to hear from? Is Mr. Hillier the last witness, or are there still others?

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Anders]

That is correct. It's Mr. Hillier.

[Roger Gaudet, Bloc, Montcalm, QC]

Mr. Hillier will be here on Wednesday. Therefore, if we're here next week, we could study this bill. During the holidays, our friend Michel, who is a bit of a workaholic, could perhaps make some changes. I think two meetings would be enough time to dispense with this bill. I don't care one way or another, unless you opt for August 15.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Anders]

That's the nature of the motion, I guess, sir.

Mr. St. Denis.

[Brent St. Denis, Liberal, Algoma—Manitoulin—Kapuskasing, ON]

I really appreciate the support on both sides. It's just a matter of logistics, it appears.

Given the level of support expressed here in the House, it might be conceivable to have witnesses and then do the clause-by-clause right after, maybe as soon as Monday, if indeed Mr. Hillier's visit Wednesday is the last official witness on the ombudsman--unless there is something set up for Monday. We won't be able to deal with anything from Michel until the end of January. So I suppose it makes sense, rather than to just push this off....

Roger made a good point about our being really busy when we come back. Maybe there's an opportunity next Monday or next Wednesday--and I would propose Monday--to deal with it and see where it goes.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Anders]

Okay.

[Brent St. Denis, Liberal, Algoma—Manitoulin—Kapuskasing, ON]

I do appreciate the support on both sides, notwithstanding the discussion over when we'd start.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Anders]

Go ahead, Mr. Sweet.

[David Sweet, Conservative, Ancaster—Dundas—Flamborough—Westdale, ON]

Yes, I agree. We all spoke and spoke favourably of Mr. St. Denis' bill. My concern is that it's a public session. But it's appropriate to say that we've had some displays of the time investment required for our work, and we have some veterans organizations that want us to first off get the ombudsman job done, but if we delay getting to the bill of rights.... I don't want to send any kind of signal that now we've delayed anything. That's my only concern.

I would say that we also need a planning meeting. We were talking about assessing, for the bill, what it's going to take for witnesses. We also need to sit down and really take a look at what it's going to take for witnesses for the bill of rights, as well, to make sure that we have the people at the table who are required.

The one thing I did voice some concern about with Mr. St. Denis' bill was that I'd like to hear from some veterans organizations to make sure that they have a comfort level with how we would handle this in order not to detract anything from November 11. That's a sensitivity that all of us share.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Anders]

Okay. I now have exhausted everybody wishing to speak to the motion, so we will proceed to the vote on the motion.

Ms. Hinton's motion—I'm trying to remember the exact wording, but basically it was to the effect that—

[Betty Hinton, Conservative, Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC]

It was that we do the business we agreed to as a committee prior to getting into this motion.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Anders]

All right. I call the question.

I count four in favour and four against.

[Gilles-A. Perron, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Should we have the vote again?

[An hon. member]

I have a point of privilege.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Anders]

I'm not going to take that during a vote.

It was four to four. I'm going to cast the deciding vote and cast in favour of the motion.

(Motion agreed to) [See Minutes of Proceedings]

[David Christopherson, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

If this comes back, I'll return the favour.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Anders]

Just to be clear, we can't take points of order and all that stuff during a vote.