Veterans Affairs does a number of things. For example, we do not claw back disability awards. When you take a look at the benefit that would go to the widow or spouse of a soldier killed in action, it's $250,000 that is tax-free. If it's a permanent disability, it would be $250,000 tax-free. Other benefits that flow from Veterans Affairs are real benefits to the families.
It's a tough one to argue in public, because all of us want to do the best we can, but at the end of the day the government and taxpayers have to pay the bill. I'll get the numbers so that we can more intelligently go through those numbers, but at the end of the day it would be a cost incurred by the taxpayers of Canada.
I will tell you this. In the way that any of the programs work, the argument would be that if we are going to do that, the pension benefit would have to be somehow altered to allow it to happen. Part of the equation that you and I as individual citizens sometimes forget about is the fact that in all of the pension plans, if you will, or in any of these benefit plans, the employee and the employer always pay into them. It occurs for unemployment insurance premiums as well. We often forget that the employer is paying more than the employee, at a ration of two to one. Pension plans are somewhat the same way, and it's not only moneys contributed by the individual. An adjustment would have to be made along the way if that in fact happened.
As we say back home, there ain't no free lunch. That's not to say we would not like to see it.
I'm not saying this in a pejorative way, but when you take ownership of government, your views on some of these things change. At the end of the day, you're responsible for balancing the books and spending in appropriate ways that are consistent with good practices. I'm suggesting it's one that responsible governments grapple with, and my reply to Mr. Thibault is the same thing. We've never come up with a satisfactory answer.
I'll leave it at that for now, Mr. Bevington.