Veterans Affairs Committee on Nov. 22nd, 2007

[Brent St. Denis, Liberal, Algoma—Manitoulin—Kapuskasing, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Mr. Marchand and Ms. Sharkey, for helping us out today.

All of us as members of Parliament probably have had cases where, when it comes to CPP disability applications by constituents, we often find that the government appeals favourable decisions made at the appeal level. A constituent may have lost at the first level of a CPP disability application, won it on appeal, and then the government would often appeal that second-level favourable decision. It seems to be a CPP policy.

Does that happen much--if you're aware--with your board's decisions, that a successful application at your level is appealed by the government lawyers?

[Victor Marchand]

To my knowledge, never.

[Brent St. Denis, Liberal, Algoma—Manitoulin—Kapuskasing, ON]

That's good news.

[Victor Marchand]

What has happened in the past--and I'm not sure which cases were involved--is that there were at least one or two instances where the veteran was successful on judicial review, and that was appealed to the Federal Court of Appeal.

To my knowledge, never has a veteran won his case with the board and had that decision taken to judicial review. I can't remember that.

[Brent St. Denis, Liberal, Algoma—Manitoulin—Kapuskasing, ON]

Thank you for that answer.

We now have in place a federal ombudsman for veterans. It's my recollection of the ombudsman's mandate that he is not to involve himself in your board's activities. I don't really debate that.

I know the position is new, it hasn't evolved yet, but do you anticipate some kind of helpful exchange of information between your board's operation and the ombudsman's office? Not that he can involve himself with cases in your office, but do you see the potential for some helpful liaison between the two?

[Victor Marchand]

Oh yes. I'm a great fan of portfolio management. We will make sure that this new ombudsman is fully informed about our operations, and ideally, we will eventually build a working relationship with him and his office and his staff to be able to work out problems, if we can, as rapidly as we can.

[Brent St. Denis, Liberal, Algoma—Manitoulin—Kapuskasing, ON]

Thank you.

If I have time at the end, Mr. Chair, my colleague Mr. Valley has just a short question.

I'll conclude with this question. Now that the backlog, happily, has been cleared, hopefully the percentage of successful results reflects the historical. In other words, in the rush to complete them, there was equal oversight, equal care taken in each of the cases. I assume that's the case.

[Victor Marchand]

If I may add, sir, the busier the board member, the better the decisions.

[Brent St. Denis, Liberal, Algoma—Manitoulin—Kapuskasing, ON]

Okay. Well, that's good to hear. I've asked similar questions before of other witnesses.

The kinds of cases that came out of the World War II veterans cadre, the cases that came out of the Korean veterans cadre, and those following.... I'm assuming that the types of cases were different as the demographic changed, as circumstances changed.

Do you track the changing nature of the kinds of cases you're hearing so that you can forecast the needs for different kinds of expertise to serve the board's needs? Do you track at that level?

[Victor Marchand]

Yes, we do.

There are some significant differences in the nature of the cases stemming from active force service versus regular force service. There are fundamental differences there.

The effort the government and the board have put into having a selection process that aims for the best-qualified candidates has been a wonderful response to this need.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Anders]

Thank you very much.

Mr. St. Denis has also run out of time.

Now we go back over to Monsieur Gaudet with the Bloc for five minutes.

[Roger Gaudet, Bloc, Montcalm, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. Marchand, you talked about performance, which bothered me a little bit, because I don't like to hear people talking about performance with respect to veterans. I believe we should show humanity towards the people who defended our country. I would not like to see veterans being compared to the system used by the CSST or any other board. I mention the CSST only because I am familiar with that particular organization in Quebec. I want to be sure that we're not talking about performance in that sense. If that were to be the case, I would not be very happy about it.

[Victor Marchand]

By definition, the very nature of the work that we are asked to carry out on behalf of veterans clearly shows that we are talking about a mandate and an initiative of the Government of Canada, something that is very evident in the means that are being used to meet our targets. I can assure you that it is the case.

[Roger Gaudet, Bloc, Montcalm, QC]

Have you had an opportunity to meet with the new ombudsman to discuss your work?

[Victor Marchand]

No, I have not met with him yet, but I intend to do so. We have prepared a presentation that we would like to make to him as early as next week. We will brief him on our activities, so that he has access to the best possible information. I am especially anxious to develop a professional working relationship with him that will allow us to resolve problems even more quickly, if need be.

[Roger Gaudet, Bloc, Montcalm, QC]

Under the new Veterans Charter, do you think there is a significant difference between the old and the new table of disabilities used by the Veterans Review and Appeal Board?

[Victor Marchand]

The new table of disabilities is completely different from the previous one. The new table is far more rigourous and technical, whereas the former one allowed for much more latitude when assessing cases. Some conditions were not listed in the former table of disabilities, which meant that we had to find comparisons, whereas the new table covers all cases.

[Roger Gaudet, Bloc, Montcalm, QC]

Does the benefit of the doubt still count?

[Victor Marchand]

Anyone required to manage evidence is faced with the challenge of introducing the benefit of the doubt in all cases. It is not always necessary to rely on that, because more often than not, we have all the necessary evidence to render an enlightened decision. The principle of the benefit of the doubt is intended to help us where evidence is lacking and we have to rely on the credibility of the testimony and the reasonableness of the claim. That is where the benefit of the doubt comes into play.

[Roger Gaudet, Bloc, Montcalm, QC]

On November 11, I met with an 87 year-old veteran who had been granted his pension at the age of 85. He told me that it had been quite a difficult process. But, as you say, I suppose that he was given the benefit of the doubt, because he had a problem with his hearing. That's why I asked you whether the benefit of the doubt is still a factor. I was surprised to hear that this veteran had fought in the First World War and had only found out that he was entitled to a pension at the age of 85.

[Victor Marchand]

The important thing is that he got it.

[Roger Gaudet, Bloc, Montcalm, QC]

Are you doing enough advertising aimed at veterans? I am wondering whether the Legions are not just social clubs, because you don't see many veterans there.

This gentleman I met with was extremely humble and was even hesitant to tell me about his World War Two experiences.

[Victor Marchand]

I hope that he ultimately won his case.

[Roger Gaudet, Bloc, Montcalm, QC]

I told him he was entitled to other services, including help with housework and tending the lawn, as well as during the winter season. I'm not sure that he was aware of any of that.

[Victor Marchand]

I think you should pass on those concerns to the Department. We are only responsible for reviews and appeals. Your question would probably be better put to the Department, which provides all those basic services.